WoK: Duel, smack talk.

Post by **korexus** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:36 pm

One set of orders done now, I'm not sure I'll bother with the other two players. trewqh's demise is already certain.

By the way, trewqh, the three links saying whether you have sent orders are checking your lowest numbered player, so ignore the 'No Orders' and 'Sent Orders' bit for now. I'll fix that after I've RIPed you...

korexus.

Post by **Hannibal** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:07 pm

Er, can the GM join in on smack talk?!! Unconventional, but why not, so long as it's fun?

Kor, no need to warn Trewqh that the engine would say "orders submitted" even if he'd only submitted one set .... he submitted all 3 sets, with a confident flourish. So, Kor, if you're saying you'll only fix that AFTER you've ripped him, we just could be in for a very long wait ......!

But, impartial as ever, Go Trewqh!! Go Kor!! (With you two, my money's on one of the Roboplayers .....)

Cheers,
Han

Post by **trewqh** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:53 pm

Well, Han made my intention to laugh at kor's single set of orders not neccessary anymore so here goes a quote:

korexus wrote:Possible issue with the Robo players:

EFF is going to absolutely plummet...

Perhaps some of the conquered provinces should be set to EFF instead of MIS?

Chris, I guarantee that you will not last long enough to see the EFF of Bots "plummet", so don't you worry about that!

trewqh

Post by **korexus** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:20 am

Ooh dear, maybe I should put orders in for the other two players too.

Maybe if I deliberately get in my own way, I can make this game last long enough to be worth watching...

Post by **Hannibal** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:49 am

You're just covering yourself .... if you end up blocking yourself, you can claim it was deliberate. Nice try ...

Han

Post by **trewqh** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:52 pm

Come on! No one's going to believe you hurt yourself with your own orders on purpose! We all know that you still need lots of practice before you can make a successful offensive!

trewqh

Post by **trewqh** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:43 pm

I told you!!!

My orders for turn 2 are already in since it's so obvious how to defeat you. How are yours?

trewqh
the gleefully aggressive Vulking

Post by **korexus** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:16 am

I'll get drunk tonight and type something in. You know that's how I like to play...

One day I'll play an entire WoK game sober, I'll probably be the worst player in the history of this fine game!

korexus.

Post by **trewqh** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:59 pm

No attacks? I'm puzzled.

Or maybe it's one of those Scholar early sleeping tactics

Post by **korexus** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:18 pm

I did put in a couple of attack orders, but the OOP messed them up a bit...

However, the wheels within the wheels are still turning quite nicely

korexus.

Post by **Hannibal** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:58 pm

Ok, the game obviously needs a handicapping system. From now on, just to even things up more, trewqh can only submit orders when he, too, is drunk.

By order of the GM.

Han

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:27 pm

You don't even realise what you've just caused

Post by **Hannibal** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:48 pm

Uh-oh ..... looks like Trewqh took that first drink ......what have I unleashed? And against whom?

Han

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:01 pm

Post by **trewqh** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:52 pm

Something tells me that you'll be left with only one player after turn 4, korexus!

trewqh

PS. My orders are in!

Post by **trewqh** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:54 pm

I excpected this game to have as fast a pace as clan wars and it does. Also, it doesn't, actually, take that long before one sees 3 RIPs in a regular game either.

I mean I like the fact that Duels and Clan Wars are fast and aggressive, but the NAPs could be at least a bit shorter in Duels.

If korexus' last player survives until the end of the NAP with my Red player then my Red player will surely be too strong for korexus to win with.

Post by **Hannibal** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:57 pm

Right, I just added to the commentary, for an overview for outsiders.

Well done, trewqh, I'd be amazed if Kor could come back from that. You were trying out different strategies (great for a first beta-test), which really helped. You sussed the rules and biases really well and picked the right strategy, just from the rules and exploiting the OOP. Great stuff.

But I have the opposite reaction for developing it for version 2? You suggest that the naps get shortened to fit how fast it plays. I suggest making it play slower to fit the naps! I had in mind that it should last about 7-10 turns, not have a clear winner(?) by end of turn 4. I really want it to be a richer experience, with more strategic options, and the robos being opportunities as well as threats to have to dodge, and that can only happen with more breathing-space than 5 or 6 turns -- while trying to keep it on the right side of fast 'n' furious, for rapid excitement.

So, having spotted this a couple of turns ago, I amended the houserules for Duel #02 and #03 to slow it down just a tad and make the robos a tad more worth attacking - to make a first RIP a bit harder, and the robos more vulnerable. It was already a game where you had to think carefully and soberly, but version 2 (Duel #02) makes the winning approach harder to spot? And makes it last a couple of turns longer?

Smack-talk thread, you say? OK: Kor, throw in the beermat, and GM a showdown between Trewqh The Lucky and Han The Inventor, and I'll avenge you! Death to the aggressive Vulking!! ....er, er .....I mean HIM, not me.

Han

Post by **trewqh** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:13 pm

Well, different players like different games.

I agree that Duel#1 is not that good if we want to agree on one good set of rules that would allow to make Duel a legitimate WOK variant with it's VPs and everything. It's true that the shorter the game the more it depends on luck and one has less time to apply strategies and, actually, one doesn't have to do much to win a VP.

From that point of view I agree with you, although I'm not sure I'd enjoy a longer Duel variant as much as I did (DO!) enjoy Duel#1. I might be wrong though...

As for korexus giving up: I don't mind even though I started doing my orders already

Post by **korexus** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:54 pm

Bugger, just lost the post.

I'm with Han, I expected the Duel to turn into a 7 or 8 turn, 'dog fight'. Part of the problem was my inability to enter orders without glaring errors that a 5 year old could have spotted, but also the pace of the game isn't quite right.

One way we could change this is to allow more attacking earlier on. We could up the WOK in the starting province slightly or the tech per worker or reduce the TEC required for 4 attacks, but the extra mobility could make life more interesting. - I think Han tried this, but we each got 48 tech and then changed aims, so nothing came of it...

Also, the Robos are too slow. There is a lot of opportuinity for using them as cover or extra attacks, but they only take one province per turn and their route is too predictable. Maybe if they used the missiles which they create they could take 2 provinces per turn? - Although they might run out of steam too quickly then. Alternatively, they could attack the lowest numbered target at the time (as opposed to at the start of the turn) making it far easier to suprise your opponent by redirecting them. (Easier to prgoramme, harder to playtest).

OK, that's the gist of what I typed first tiem round. I think.

korexus,

Post by **trewqh** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:40 pm

Korexus wrote to me and Han saying he gives up!

Hannibal wrote:Smack-talk thread, you say? OK: Kor, throw in the beermat, and GM a showdown between Trewqh The Lucky and Han The Inventor, and I'll avenge you! Death to the aggressive Vulking!! ....er, er .....I mean HIM, not me.

So, korexus, are you taking over Han's Duel 2 or setting up your own group? Because I'm eager to show Han what is the difference between talking and, actually, facing me on the battle field.

And no matter what rules we use I'll simply... win.

Let's figh.... Playtest!