Square of 144 is here

[trewqh]

LOL! Who needs enemies with an ally like trewqh.

Well, hmmm Let me see... I guess that'll be:

Egbert
Massielita
Dameon
Raw
Thin King
Saladin
Bjorn Toulouse
Calidus
Underdog
Smashface
Aussie Gaz
Goat Herder
Funtastick
Nestalawe
Allister Fiend
Reaper
Count Henri
Nemesis
Lardmaster
Yarosund
Tristao
Duke
Raven
Lord Fredo
Tomb Raider
Brykovian
Xwing
Undertaker
Korexus
Dyana
Dark Monk
TBert
Doverish
Grave Maker
The Invisible
Kaiser Mojie
Coolant
Mylantis
Strider
Bicco
Jadg
Baron Roland
Spud McDoug
Modi
Pemca
Lord Amgor
Covenant
Blind IO
Axebold
Kiesta
Gorzag
Casablanca
Lord Jadin
Crusher Bob
Ben III
Edsu
Lord Carlow
Piebald
Juggernaut
Skarn
Mac an Ghiolla
Mason
Sleffie
Queen Pea
Warped Angel
Moridin
General Havoc
Baron Krul
Shagga
Shadycreek
Delimar
Warlord Ram
Ralrac
Taipan
Nova
Eric Slash
Ja' Ded
Crazy Psycho
Kalisto
Angel grl
Silver Surfer
Butcher
Xero
Donut
Validon
Hannibal
The Kraken
Lord KRAGG

and the VPless players too

Yours,
trewqh

[Lowebb]

First of all to Dameon (and Lardmaster) I made it clear on the "I have a question" thread that I was setting up the clan for 2 main reasons, Cause I think Dameon is a self-righteous knob (I'm sorry for using that word yet again, but it is one of the few that gets through the censors) and cause he used a hole in the rules to get VP's and I intend to do the same.

Have a look at that thread Lardmaster, I dont expect everyone in my clan to hate Dameon, it would be nice but I certainly won't force it upon anyway. I dont even think Underdog hates Dameon, its really just me.

Next on to Donut, you are young in years and inexperienced in Kaomaris, let me fill you in, Al hates dameons and like me wants him to p*ss off, The entire population of Austrailia hates Dameon cause he accused someone with little evidence of cheating, TK hates Dameon cause, well TK has sense. There are many others who are very nice ppl and wouldnt admit to thinking Dameon is a twat but it is clear they do so as I have received many an email in support of my words with Dameon. In fact if you stay in kaomaris for a couple of years, I would give it 70:30 that you will also realise the grand a-hole Dameon is. Now also Donut if you think my clan is a joke, thats your opinion, I previously had a clan but could not maintain it any longer as of a heavy work load. Not 1 other member of neither my clan or anyone else was willing to take it over. Kaomaris is a growing community and if you think the time I am putting in to maintaining a clan is a joke, then me and you will have a problem. It may look like personal gain I am after, but as I have said I dont expect to get them VP's as I usually get screwed when it comes to kaomaris and the rules, I am simply trying to point out the flaw in VO getting AS VP's (which I have successfully done and hopefully they will lose them VPs when a rule is put in place)

Yeah I know it is so awful of me to start a clan which isnt about "guardian of kaomaris" "baddies of kaomaris" "righteous knights of kaomaris" blah blah blah. Come to the Square of 144 if you want a laugh, enjoy kaomaris and make it in general a far more interesting place. Tell you what DOnut you go to Al and ask him if what I am doing is bad for kaomaris before you go shouting your mouth off like a teenager.

Ok Bjorn, you are using your bias to not give SoO the VP's, Dameon isnt even the clan head but yet you gave him the VP's???? What if I got calidus to come along would I get the VP's? What if I got Calidus to say Underdog was the clan leader of CoN for 5 minutes, would I get the VPs? I intend to fight to get the VP's, I dont expect to win. The amount of times I have had to back down to keep the peace around here is ridiculus.

[gm_al]

Let me just add that by the look at the current votes the WSC will probably declare all those VP-takings from old Clans for illegal.

A dead/inactive/disbanded Clan is GONE. No other Clan following it will be able to pick up those VPs from it. This will also go effective for Clans that have already practiced this.

The vote isnt over nor official, but I just though I had to put this here so further speculations on what you all could do are reduced to a resonable size.

PS: renaming an ACTIVE Clan will not fall under this. But as soon as a Clan is disbanded it will be treated as "case closed".

Results of the votes should be in by the weekend.

[Saladin]

All though i agree with what Al has proposed in this vote, i find it troublesome that there is already a vote whilst non WSC members haven't even gotten a chance to have a discussion about this on the boards.

As i feared when this setup of the WSC came about, although i supported the current setup i also appealed to all that there would be general discussions held on the boards about every vote and most WSC members then agreed. Of course now it's much easier to just disregard the 'ordinary Kaomaris folk' and let the 'politicians' in the WSC act like real life politicians, by promissing one thing and then doing another whilst they keep the masses ignorant.

There if Donut can rant i can too.

BTW Donut i fully support what you said.

[Lowebb]

Well thankfully the WSC can see the stupidity of Vo getting AS VP's and I fully support what will seemingly happen, I'm just back from circuits and was going to post a huge injustice message here about the WSC and the few ppl about kaomaris who think they have power, but thanks to the WSC and Al and GH this issue has now come to a head.

Nice dig there Saladin, if you have something to say to me you don't have to go through Donut. I made it clear why I started the clan, I have achieved its main aim, so I don't see the clan as a joke. Egg EVERYWHERE mate

[Saladin]

A dig? No, no...i'm not a 'digger'...i'm an asskisser remember?

[gm_al]

Well the rating stuff was discussed for ages, no one cant have missed that thread....
To call a general rule on people that go M-3 is just a small thing, and GMs can "override" it in their house rules if they really want to.
The third vote on dead Clans and picking their VPs needs to be treated asap. I think we had enough brabble about it on the boards.

LOL - and now I get blamed to get the WSC into action it seems. And Sal, dont say Im a politician or act like one, Id get insulted....
(Look up the greek origin of the word and you know the animals you are comparing me with)

[Saladin]

No, no...you've done well Al. finally the WSC is doing something. Thanks for that.

It's just the way the WSC operates now...i would have liked it a lot more if the WSC kept their discussions in public. Either on the boards or by opening the WSC list to all members who would like to keep informed. Of course those members would not have a vote but at least they may shed a different light on things and come up with solutions/problems the WSC members hadn't thought off.

So what i'm asking for is that the WSC discussions be done in public.


Now...let's party!!!

[ThinKing]

And Sal, dont say Im a politician or act like one, Id get insulted....
(Look up the greek origin of the word and you know the animals you are comparing me with)

The Greek origin of the words is (pronounced) "polites" which means "citizen".

[trewqh]

And Sal, dont say Im a politician or act like one, Id get insulted....
(Look up the greek origin of the word and you know the animals you are comparing me with)

The Greek origin of the words is (pronounced) "polites" which means "citizen".

I was just about to write that.

"Polis" means city in greek.

trewqh

[Dameon]

Donut said what needed to be said absolutely perfectly, so I refer you to his post when you decide to grow up, Ben.

And Al (and Saladin, and anybody else interested in the WSC vote), the official wording of the question was:

    - Should new Clans be forbidden to take over VPs from old, inactive/dead Clans ? (This would also apply to recently formed Clans)

Even if votes could be made retroactive (which they cannot, of course) then this would not have changed a thing. AS was inactive, yes. If VO were an entirely new clan (like Square of 144) then VO could not have gotten the VPs. However, I RE-activted AS (and yes Ben, I was the clan head for VO for the first month or so), then changed the name to reflect the new set of governing rules for the clan. I realize now I should have reactivated AS, waited a month or so, then changed the name so Ben wouldn't cry, but hindsight is 20/20 of course. AS was a special case because it was inactive- I left it inactive until the WSC came to its senses about the clan members/GMs rules. Calidus declared CoN disbanded, dead, and gone when he broke it up. If you can't see the difference Ben, well, I can't say I'm surprised as it's just another example of your stupidity.

[Egbert]

This also brings up the question of who is entitled to reactivate a "dead" clan. Is it only the founder? What if it's someone who was the clan leader when the clan folded, but that person was not the founder? What if it was someone who was the clan leader at some point, but not when it folded, and was not the founder?

Also, how about the renaming of a clan? Any restrictions on this? I would think that someone renaming it should need to present a good reason before the WSC, requiring WSC approval.

In my opinion in this instance, I would say that Dameon gets the A-S VPs, but X-Wing does not get the Circle's VPs. But that's just my 2 cents.

[trewqh]

This also brings up the question of who is entitled to reactivate a "dead" clan.

The currnet vote states that noone can reactivate a dead clan. Dead, disbanded or whatever BUT as opposed to in-active (that's how I understand it at least)

Also, how about the renaming of a clan? Any restrictions on this? I would think that someone renaming it should need to present a good reason before the WSC, requiring WSC approval.

This isn't a matter that we tkae care of during this WSC session. I personally don't think we need to regulate that. If some clan wishes to get rid of their trade-mark (name, theme or soemthing it's their choice to do so.

In my opinion in this instance, I would say that Dameon gets the A-S VPs, but X-Wing does not get the Circle's VPs. But that's just my 2 cents.

That makes $0.04 since we put our money in the same jar.

trewqh

[gm_al]

Hmmmm guess no matter what we will do *some* persons will find a loophole and claim old VPs that really shouldnt belong to them.

Maybe my next call for a vote will be that Clan VPs are erased from Kaohalla for good, just keeping track of Clan VPs for the current season - this would get rid of all the rubbish Ive been reading lately, where people try to justify their actions and invent views on what they did and why they had to do it.

And there you have a more public discussion, Sal.

(I dont think we are discussing those issues "in private" in the WSC - we hardly have any mail exchange at all....)

[korexus]

Not sure exactly where to post this, so I'm posting it here.

I found out earlier today that WSC votes are currently still going to TK for perusal as Scholars' rep.
Now, just incase anyone's been out in another solar system (SWG or otherwise) recently. TK has left the scholars and is either a member of the First Family or "Gone" depending on who you listen to.

TK doesn't want the emails and as the Scholars have seen fit to elect me the new rep (without asking me first, I might add ) I do. Could whoever is in charge of such things forward these oh-so-important issues to me instead please?

Thankyou,


korexus.


Oh and PS, to Dameon;

Even if votes could be made retroactive (which they cannot, of course)

Does it say this anywhere? I don't think it does. Surely the WSC could say something like "It doesn't say anywhere that we can't do this, so we will." I seem to remember that line of logic from somewhere...

Of course, if it turns out that I am wrong and the state of play can't be over turned, then presumably if X-Wing grabs the VPs before the vote is passed then he'll get to keep them forever.

If VO were an entirely new clan (like Square of 144) then VO could not have gotten the VPs. However, I RE-activted AS

I'm sure Ben can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he says he's re-forming CoN as SoO(FF) and therefore they're not an "entirely new clan". Guess what? It "doesn't say anywhere" that a clan has to have the same clan head when it reforms as when it went inactive.

dangnabbit. I told myself I wouldn't get mixed up in this argument again!

[Dameon]

Geez Kor do I have to draw a picture for you? CoN is officially a dead clan. AS was never officially dead, merely inactive. There is all the difference in the world between those two things. I am done with this argument, period, I am not having it again just because Ben wants to. This is going to be my last post on this topic and I am henceforth going to refrain from reading this thread, there is no point.

[Donut]

Silver Surfer
Butcher
Xero
Donut
Validon
Hannibal
The Kraken
Lord KRAGG

and the VPless players too

Yours,
trewqh

C'mon Trewqh, at least gimme a little credit to not attack my clanmate.

There if Donut can rant i can too.

BTW Donut i fully support what you said.

I knew I loved you... or that avatar. I still stare at it constantly.

Ben: What's been said has been said. You know where I stand. I just hope you can come to realize that my words weren't just the shoutings of a teenager. Some young people aren't quite as stupid as you may assume.

Donut

[Calidus]

OK, I finally got tired of reading, and here I will put my two pence in about this issue. As of now, CoN is a disbanded clan. I see no reason that the original founder of a clan should not be able to re-instate his/her clan at any time. If they are once again willing to put forth the effort it takes to maintain a clan, then more power to them.

Egbert brings up an excellent point about former clan heads re-activating a clan. I think that this should only be allowed, if #1, the founding player is no longer an active member of the community. (for example, Bicco and the Red Branch Knights) or #2, the Former Clan Head at the time the clan was disbanded should have the opportunity to re-activate their clan. (as would be the case for a clan whose membership dropped below four members for the alloted time.

While I do not think that I, as a former member the the RBK, should be allowed to reform that clan, should Bicco chose to return to WOK, then surely he should have every right to reform his clan, at his discretion, with all former VPs etc intact, as part of the HISTORY of WOK.

In the event a clan decides to rename themselves, then as long as a good portion of the original clan name remains intact, they SHOULD be able to to retain their former VPS, (ie the Royals ->>> The Royal Fianna Fail).

In the event a clan decides to rename themselves completely, then they DO NOT reserve the right to former VPs, and must strike out to find their own fame and fortune. (IE Ar-Sereg and VO.)

And Nick, do not go getting all high and mighty about not making the WSC decision retroactive. It CAN be put before the WSC to ensure that ALL clans both past and present adhere to the new rule, and the WSC can also vote to have the former VPs from AS stripped from VO. All it takes is two members of the WSC to bring it to a vote.

And Ben, you ARE NOT re-instating CoN. Enough said.

-Calidus

[Lowebb]

Well said Calidus I could not agree more. Its seems everyone thinks I was in this for personal gain. COULD NOT be further from the truth. I am not a member of the WSC but from Al's post I took that indeed a rule was about to be passed that would strip the VO of their VP's, that I am very happy for, pity it took the forming of SoO to realise that.

I never said you were stupid Donut, I said Dameon was stupid and you were shouting your mouth of before you truely understood the situation but I hope now you understand what I was saying.

AS Dameon is no longer reading this thread he wont know now that Calidus has told him CoN is not a 'dead clan' and hence can stand by the same rules as AS did. As he wont read this he won't realise that finally (I hope so anyway) he will have to stand by the rules of the WSC like everyone else

[gm_al]

I am really getting tired of all this. My initial call for a vote was indeed aimed at that NO ONE would be allowed to pick VPs from an inactive/dead/dismissed Clan, and by the looks of it Dameon still finds a way to say it wont apply to what he did anyways. Now if there is one guy you could call a politician it surely is him. (btw "politic" shouldnt be coming from "polis" but rather from "poly" and "tic"....)
And why should a WSC ruling not be retroactive ? Where does it say that ?

Nothing will change, even if we discuss this for ages. Again, the only solution I see in all this is to call for a vote to erase Clan VPs from Kaohalla. It may be WOK history, but what you guys are doing is using old glory (VPs) to make a new Clan look better. In my eyes, ANY change to a Clan, even if it is a simply name change, "resets" the Clan. Thats just my view, but I will call for a vote to erase Clan VPs from Kaohalla tonight.

PS@Korexus: Dameon should be handling the WSC maillist, but maybe I have the PW somewhere too. In case he isnt reading this Ill try to remove TK from it and replace him with you. Ill also send you the current votes, please reply to them by Sunday.