The Order of Valn Ohtar

Post by **ThinKing** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:03 pm

Dameon wrote:
Tristao wrote: 2-We are the only clan that survived from the original 5 clans
That's not true, because my clan is still around too.

Actually, it IS true. Your clan didnt *survive*, Nick.

Ah, I remember the Arse-Regiment mutiny of 2002, led by the noble Duke. What a great day.

*looks at clan Kaohalla*

My clan's better than your clan!

TK

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:23 pm

Your clan didnt *survive*, Nick.

What mattered did.

Y'all better get ready. We got a squad. I'm happy that Bjorn and Raven are on my side now.

Tristao · Post by **Tristao** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:42 am

And to finalize this, I say:

Thank you Thin King.

Tristao

P.S.
Here's a little confession to you (because nobody else will read this):

When I was a newbie (most of our community is now thinking "was there life before Lara Croft?") you were already catching major VPs and discussing that title with Baron Roland. Piebald (who had just come out of a huge argument with you) entrusted me with a list of players who I should not trust (50% proved to be right, 10% wrong and the rest were players I never met, on the account of them quitting the gamebefore I played them!).

You of course were the star of the company, and quite possibly the contender for the crook-of-the-year contest that Piebald had going on in his head.
When after that, we came to a clan war, I really wanted to impress him by taking ALL the scholars (read "skulkers") out.
That proved to be a terrible strategy, specially having a team lof mere humans against the team you had put together.

I am now on a WAY diferent position regarding the scholars, considering you a good ally if it ever comes to that, and knowing that some of the players I consider my personal favourites came from that clan.

I could mention Egbert (not that he knows how to play this game, that pathetic no good wannabe newbie player

) or Brykovian or some other guys who I really like playing with, But I won't (I just did).

Instead I'll just mention Coolant, who is in all standards a great player, and a guy who I'dd like to play sometime soon again, if he is to return to WOK.

What does all this have to do with The Order of Valn Ohter? Beats me!
I just tend to get carried away.

P.P.S.
I do miss Piebald, his lack of sense for diplomacy, and his GREAT inovative hability to surprise us all in the middle of the game. Great playing with him. You couldn't count on a sure VP with him (though he was a great WOK IV player) but you could allways count on having fun! The way he twisted the games he played in...
I would say that his style was the absolute opposite of that new guy, the one with no VPs whatsoever, Eg-head or what's-his-name?

Post by **Dameon** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:20 pm

Hmm, yes, well, the difference between VO and the Thugs is that I at least am honest. I am 100% positive that the Thugs have not have four active members the entire time that the clan has been in existance. Nothing against you personally Tristao, but the facts are the facts. The only difference between the Thugs survival and the survival of AS/VO is that I at least respected the clan rules as they were set down. It seems like the Thugs are having somewhat of a resurgance now, and good for them, but they are no more the "last founding clan" than VO is, or, for that matter, than DS would be if it was able to rise from the ashes.

Post by **trewqh** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:47 pm

Dameon wrote:Hmm, yes, well, the difference between VO and the Thugs is that I at least am honest. I am 100% positive that the Thugs have not have four active members the entire time that the clan has been in existance. Nothing against you personally Tristao, but the facts are the facts. The only difference between the Thugs survival and the survival of AS/VO is that I at least respected the clan rules as they were set down. It seems like the Thugs are having somewhat of a resurgance now, and good for them, but they are no more the "last founding clan" than VO is, or, for that matter, than DS would be if it was able to rise from the ashes.

Although I share the same impression about the Thuggs, Nick, I believe that now there is no way to check if the periods during which they had less than 4 active members were longer than they can be (3 weeks, a month? can't remember)

trewqh

Post by **Dameon** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:21 pm

Trust me, they were. I'm positive. The only steady members of the Thugs to this point have been LM and Tristao, and even Tristao hasn't always been active. Again, nothing against the Thugs- I like both LM and Tristao a great deal- but the facts are the facts, that's all.

Tristao · Post by **Tristao** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:41 am

Ok, here we go.
First of all, Dameon, you know I got nothing against you, "au contraire!".

(from here on, the rest of this is not specificaly for Dameon, but for anyone who reads it)

I would be quiet with whatever decision you guys made about VO, just untill you "gone and made it my business" when it was implied that there were no more clans from the original clans.

There is one. Thuggee.
Now I'm not quiet about VO, and I have changed my stand in this matter.
I will not now tolerate it from getting any clans points. I know I am not the boss of anyone, but one. Myself. I have the right to my opinion, and my opinion at the moment is that VO should NOT get any points whatsoever from ANY previous clan.

As for Thuggee beeing dead:

Personal opinions, be them from Dameon or Tristao, are valid, but still personal opinions.
Consult anyone or any chart, or any socre you like, but Thuggee was NEVER, disbanded, dead, criogenicly suspended, hipnotized to a long sleep, killed, murdered, inactive, sleeping giant, sleeping beauty, mummified, or whatever.

Also, it has never, by ANY standards changed name, ID card, social security number, picture in the driver's licence, made a fake ID to get alcohol, put on a mask, had plastic surgery, changed faces like that movie "The Face", gone under a witness protection program, emmigrated, had a twin brother (or a clone), or anything that would confuse it's true identity.

Did I allways play a game?
NO.
Sometimes, I was between games. Sometimes a couple of months went by!
Did that happen to other thuggs at other times. Yes.
Does that make us dead?
NO.

Tristao, Lardmaster, Lord Amgor, Xero and Kael are Thuggee's active members.
Are they all active? Yes. Are they all playing? No. Some players I know are playing, but I for one am still waiting for that Tower game to fill up. Maybe some other player is waiting betwen games. Don't tell me that Thuggee is the only clan were this happens.

We have other members who honourably belong to us, but we don't list them as suspended, or zombies, or living-dead. Coolant is a good example of that (in all aspects). Untill he returns to play for us, he will not be listed, because we know how to do things.

For instance. I am pretty active right now (getting this matter sorted out properly), but I can't get a game to play in. I've joined that new game (the Tower) but I'm still not playing right now.
Also, Thuggee's new website is ready, and I've been emailing diferent people to get it published.
This is about my 3rd or 4th person I email about changing the address on the clan pages. I emailed one person, he told me to go to another one because he was off the case now, then that one said the same too, and another one, and now I'm hoping to get a reply from the 4rth person.
Maybe it's him now.

These kinds of things happen in a clan. The older it is, the more chances you have it has happened in a year of its history.

Now, any opinions Dameon might have (in order to defend his cause) will still not change the fact that we are indeed the only clan alive from the founding clans.

I've said it before, we are not the greatest clan (in numbers or VPs) in Kaomaris.
Some other clans might have that honour. I wish my clan had it. But we don't.

Now I will tell you what Dameon might not want told here.

But we are in fact the ONLY living clan from the founding clans.

I remember (shoot!

) that Ar-Sereg went down. It was de-activated. It was killed.
No members whatsoever in the clan.
I mean, active, disactive, semi-active, one, five, half a player, whatever. NO MEMBERS.
Don't like what I'm saying? Bad luck. It's true.

I also remember (shoot!) that according to the current clan page, Ar-Sereg does not exist. It has been that way for a while.

Dameon:
Make it as you will, make this about Thuggee (as you cleverly tried to do) (you old strategical genius you!).
I was actually doing you a favour, defending Thuggee, but I'm on to you now, and you won't get away with it.

This is about you getting to re-open your old clan.

As far as I'm concerned, NOBODY, in whatever circumstances should be allowed to revive a clan that died.
If it died, it's only fair for the ones that survived, that they stay dead.
No extra VPs in clan kaohalla, no ancient glory of the past, no nothing.
They are history. DEAD.

I mean, no offense, but if you let AS die, the blame is yours!
Thuggee is a small clan (for some of you) but we are still here!
The Scholars are still here!
Some older clans are still here. If they die, they should have not let it happen.

Clans die. (sh) It happens.
Maybe they make mistakes. Maybe they bite off more than they can chew. Maybe they doze off for a while and then it is too late. Maybe they screw up. (Like you did, Dameon)

Whatever the reasons, I don't really care. I made a lot of effort keeping my clan alive. Yeah, sure, there were times when I thought about joining my clan with another one, but we struggled and survived. Now, you come here and talk like that of us just so you can get what you want?

You have no right Dameon!

Your clan died under your leadership. Bad luck? Maybe. Bad management? Maybe. Do I care? NO.

As far as I'm concerned, you should not be discussing what is the proper way to revive a clan. A clan dies, tough.

Tristao

P.S.
Ar-Sereg will stay in my memory forever, because it was a great clan.
It is one of the most important clans in Kaomarian history, as it represented the white side of The War. It's leader, the great Red Dameon was the most noble in purpose and highest in valour of the great war for the Stones.
In real life, Nick explained me what Ar-Sereg standed for, and I started looking for a guy named Tolkien.
I read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings in a matter of a few weeks after that. It changed my reading habbits.
I've read the silmarilion and those other minor books now, but most importantly I gained an insight into fantasy and reading in English (I'm Portuguese).
I now read mostly in English. Suffice to say that Terry Pratchet is not translated into portuguese (The complete Dune series neither).
Enough mushy stuff things now!

Scroll up and read all that stuff about it beeing dead and staying dead!

Lord Fredo · Post by **Lord Fredo** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:59 am

Oh boy... I can't belive you wrote all that Tristao and I certainly can not believe I read it all.

Anyway I can understand that it would mean a great deal to feel that your clan has lived on from the beginning carrying some legacy from the past but just like Dameon said no matter how you put it facts are still facts.
I too know for sure that according to the clan rules clan Thuggee can in no way what so ever have been fully "active", as defined by the clan rules, all the time.
However this is of no real concern to me since you are giving it another go with some of its original members onboard and for this I salute you.
I guess this hole discussion goes to show what I and some others have been stressing for a long time that the clan rules really need to be enforced or we might just as well concider scrapping the hole clan system.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:42 pm

Tristao wrote:Did I allways play a game?
NO.
Sometimes, I was between games. Sometimes a couple of months went by!
Did that happen to other thuggs at other times. Yes.
Does that make us dead?

Yes. Technically if a clan hasn't got four active members (who haven't played in a game for a set amount of months) it should have been deactivated. The fact that Thuggee didn't do that and that the WSC didn't make you is the fault of the WSC, but technically at time Thuggee didn't exist any more.

Though i'm always happy when a clan stays around and finds new blood like Thuggee has now.

Don't tell me that Thuggee is the only clan were this happens.

No, of course not. I'm not even sure we have 4 players active right now in TKG, though Duke will be back pretty soon, but at this moment i think it's just me, AG and Smashface. Should we have less than 4 active members for the set amount of time i think that TKG will have to be (temporarily) put on an inactive status.

Whatever the reasons, I don't really care. I made a lot of effort keeping my clan alive.

Maybe a silly question Tristao, but why didn't you make sure Thuggee got a representative on the WSC?

Post by **Dameon** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:43 pm

A very nice diatribe Tristao, but the fact is, the only reason the Thugs were not put on the dead list was because the WSC has not been enforcing the clan rules at all. That will hopefully change with this coming score period. That I chose to respect the clan rules with AS while the Thugs did not is the only difference between our clans at this point in terms of longevity. In re to a Thug representative for the WSC, LM has contacted me requesting this, and I told him that all he has to do is name the four active members of the Thugs right now and I will gladly add one.

Post by **trewqh** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:30 pm

How about letting WSC decide if VO is a legitimate continuation of AS, mister Chairman?

Anyway LF, Sal and Nick: great job! Keep Tristao writing, I love his style

trewqh

Tristao · Post by **Tristao** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:51 am

Is this going to be the longest thread ever written or what?

I'm glad trewqh likes my style (it differs from time to time).

Saladin:
Do you know what you are talking about, or do you just trust Dameon's word for it?
Let me explain you something: *Tristao pulls Saladin to a quiet corner. He orders a couple of beers and makes general comments on the weather*

I know what Dameon means by Thuggee not beeing active.
For a while, he was in charge of seeing which clans were active, and which weren't. Twice he came to me and asked me where were my active players. I showed him. Twice.

Now, I admit to everyone that at specific times Thuggee has not had 4 players playing in a game. However, this is very common even in larger clans.
I don't know much about those rules, but it seems fair to me that a clan can have less than 4 players actualy playing for a period of time. Not too long a period though.
I think I can speak for most of the clans when I say that "I've done it".
TKG openly admits that they are doing it right now.
It's normal.

Clans don't get disbanded for that.
They do get disbanded if the WSC, or any other organism says so. After proven "guilty".
Or, they get disbanded if they admit they are dead, or that they have no players.

This is where Dameon is trying to confuse everyone. He is saying : "Ar-Sereg is as dead as Thuggee."

Well, guess what? He is wrong.

Dameon is a very important person in Kaomaris. His intense activity brought him many friends (I like to think I'm one) and many enemies (I like to think I'm one).
The place wouldn't be the same without him. But it still doens't give him the right to judge if Thuggee is active or not.
That's that.

If you are clever enough *Tristao gives Saladin a nudge to wake him up. Maybe the beer was too strong.* you'll notice that this Thuggee beeing dead business only arised in THIS thread. Not on this board. This very thread you are looking at right now.

There are two previous threads talking about Thuggee changing leader, and no claims to Thuggee beeing dead.

*Saladin receives a note from the cute bartender girl. His spirits rise as he opens it. Last time he was disapointed, it was the check. Not this time though. He can already see it is handwritten. He opens it up...
It is from Dameon who is sitting next table. It says "Say that I didn't read those posts!"*

Saladin: that I didn't read that post!
(awkward silence)
Tristao: ... er..
Saladin: I mean, Dameon told me to tell you that he didn't read those posts!
*Dameon shakes his head*
Tristao: Sure, maybe he hasn't gone round to do it, beeing the clan board moderator and all...

*Tristao decides to order a couple more beers. If one beer got Saladin like this, maybe with another one he can get Saladin to pick up the check.*

*Sipping on the new beer*

So, as you see my good drinking buddy, what Dameon is actually trying to do is putting us on the same category. Ar-Sereg and Thuggee, I mean.
Just read those (several) posts when he says "the only diference between Thuggee and Ar-Sereg..."

There are a lot of diferences, but maybe I would like to point out a little one. What do you think about this? Thuggee is not dead and Ar-Sereg is.
Is is subtle enough?

I mean, maybe Dameon can figure out a way to kill us with allegations from the future (uuh, I'm so scared!) but if Kristanna (the Terminatrix in T3) failed, I don't think Dameon is going to get any luckier.
*Saladin drules over his second beer as he thinks about Kristanna arriving from the future stark naked into his bedroom*

(ok, I admit it, I'm not drunk and I'm drooling too!)

So, unless Dameon can prove now what he failed to prove in the past (because Thuggee was as dead as most/all of the clans were at some time), he is going to have some trouble explaining people why has he told his new clanmate Bjorn to attribute 34.5 VPs to VO.
(This is actually true people, go and check the Clan Kaohalla kept by Bjorn)

But maybe I touched a soft spot here. I shouldn't have mentioned that, now should I? Oh well, no use crying over spilled beer.

I'll see you around!

*Tristao gives Saladin a firm handshake and leaves*
*He comes back and pays for the beers*

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:10 pm

Funny Tristao.

Though i don't drink alcohol, never have and never will.

Undertaker · Post by **Undertaker** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:24 am

Thin_King wrote: Ah, I remember the Arse-Regiment mutiny of 2002, led by the noble Duke. What a great day.

I think that it was Allister and myself who left first.

Post by **Dameon** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:32 am

Two different things. Allister and Undertaker left to form TFF, so I got Duke in and Jadg was still active then. Then Duke and TBert left to form TKG, and Jadg just vanished for reasons I never discovered. That left Strider and me, but with the stupid player/clan GM rule in play then, I decided it wasn't worth it to either recruit more members or pretend we were an active clan any more, like the Thugs have done for so long.

BTW Tristao where's that Thug webpage eh?

Tristao · Post by **Tristao** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:05 am

His Lordship Dameon continues to provoque us.

I must advise you that that is not wise sir.

However, may I sugest you look in the clan page?
Maybe that's a good place to start. (DUH!)

The page (as it is) has been done for over a week now.
I've emailed several persons (as your clanmate Bjorn can testify) untill I got the right person to change our URL. (as seen above)
I emailed Bjorn 4 days ago with our new URL, and 2 days ago he changed all the links and updated them.
Dameon, instead of trying to hit Thuggee to get people's attention out of the "revised" clan Kaohalla, may I sugest you actually get the facts BEFORE you make an arse out of yourself?

I can already imagine the new and improved Dameon's thoughts:

"I want to trash talk someone. I know, this time Thuggee seems like the perfect target. I'll bring up that issue about their page..."

"..."
"oh, but I better check if they have the page ready first!"
"dangnabbit, they do have it ready!"

"er... I know, what about if I talked about their page, and how it's colours are non-official!"
"I better check that one first too!"

Well Dameon, If you want to sum up this post I'm writing, here's a word for you:
DUH!

Tristao

P.S. I also liked the word "arse"

Post by **Lardmaster** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:06 pm

Sheesh. I don't know. Clan leader for ages and no posts then he relinquishes power and we have a flamer.

If anyone had any doubts as to why I joined Thuggee I hope this has resolved them

You should read the e-mails you get when he's your clan mate in a game!!!!

P.S. I do agree with him though

Tristao · Post by **Tristao** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:50 am

My good old friend Lardmaster
When will we kick some butt again? (so I can bug you with my incessant planning ahead and insane calculations)

I know you're on two games right now...

I think I'dd like to play a game allied with Thin King. (here's an open invitation if I've ever seen one)

A Thugg and a Scholar (both ex-leaders).
What would Piebald have to say about this?
Sacrilege!

TK, I'm at "The Tower"

(no clanmates so far)

Tristao

Post by **Dameon** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:08 am

A Thug and a Scholar? More like two Thugs, we all know TK has a little Piebald in him. OK, a lot of Piebald in him. At least somebody took up his mantle neh?

Post by **ThinKing** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:19 am

Mwahahaha! Little do they know.... I AM PIEBALD!

(just kidding)

Walter was a great chap. I hope he is doing OK.

Sorry Tristao but I cant join a game where I dont understand the map.

Also, I am in 3 games right now, and the clan championship is coming up soon too. I have been debating joining one more (WOK5) game but Eg's looks like too much work, and Gaz seems to be having some trouble.

Did we ever fight in the same game Tristao?

TK