I'm Baaaaack!

WOK for Advanced Players

Moderators: Duke, trewqh, korexus

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

I'm Baaaaack!

Post by Dameon » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:35 am

That's right folks, after a very long and painful saga involving internet access, malfunctioning computers, and hopeless tech support people, I am once again ready to resume the mantle as GM! I may be reduced to dial-up access (gasp!) but I assure you the quality of my games shall not suffer!

And just to keep things fresh, the first group I will be opening is going to be a WOK 5 SPEED game! By speed, I mean three turns will be done a week- on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Even though I am in a new time zone, the deadline times will stay the same; they were 8 PM CST prior to this point, but now they are 10 PM PST, which is the same time once you take time zone differential into account. This should also help avoid confusion for those of you who have played in my games before and know what time my deadlines are in your zone.

I don't anticipate any problems in running a speed game, BUT if I do, I may scale this game back to two turns a week if necessary. I just want to make that much clear, although hopefully there shouldn't be any problem doing three turns a week here. I will enter the game in Kaobase once Al takes me off of Hold status, but for now, the direct link is:

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/kaomaris/group35.html

Let's play some WOK!!!!
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Brykovian
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1045
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA ... Clan: Scholars
Contact:

Re: I'm Baaaaack!

Post by Brykovian » Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:24 am

Dameon wrote:they were 8 PM CST prior to this point, but now they are 10 PM PST, which is the same time once you take time zone differential into account.
Actually, you did your math backward, Nick ... 8 PM CST is 6PM PST. It gets late sooner here in the midwest than it does for you over on the left coast. ;) :)

-Bryk
Matt Worden Games ... Gem Raider, DareBase, Castle Danger, Keeps & Moats Chess

User avatar
Allister Fiend
Commander
Commander
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family

Post by Allister Fiend » Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:37 am

:)

Oh the fun of GM Nicks' X-games and such.

I e-mailed for a spot now I hope I got in.

AF
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

User avatar
trewqh
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Bialystok, Poland clan: The Vulkings

Post by trewqh » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:55 am

:3dancers: Great!

That's two things I've been waiting for:
Nick GMing and a WOK 5 Speed! :D

trewqh
trewqh
the gleefully aggressive Vulking

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:53 pm

Whoops, you are right Bryk. :oops: Well, I am not going to change the deadline time, but on the bright side that means deadlines would be four hours later than they have been for my groups, so hopefully this won't cause any problems.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Allister Fiend
Commander
Commander
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family

Post by Allister Fiend » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:52 pm

Nick,

Although I look forward to the "speed" game, it looks as if most players would rather have a normal paced Wok 5 game instead.

Would you consider changing it, that way I can almost bet that in a "snap" it would fill and be started by this weekend maybe?

Just a suggestion.

Thanks for considering it.

Allister
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

User avatar
trewqh
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Bialystok, Poland clan: The Vulkings

Post by trewqh » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:13 pm

No, don't do it, Nick!

I will open a regular WOK 5 on weekend at the latest and I want a Speed game.

OK, everyone?

trewqh
trewqh
the gleefully aggressive Vulking

User avatar
Allister Fiend
Commander
Commander
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family

Post by Allister Fiend » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:28 pm

I knew it would light the fire under someones pants.
Although I probably won't be signing up for it, I am confident that 2 other Family members will pull through.

Now if TK (Gone) wants to team up with me I will, but the others need games also.

Thanks T! :D

Allister
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

User avatar
trewqh
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Bialystok, Poland clan: The Vulkings

Post by trewqh » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:18 am

It was preplanned actually. I assume that the sum of players in both of my running groups will reach 10 or less over the weekend so I will be able to open up a list for another ten.

The idea is to give 10-20 players (or player spots actually) a VP opportunity at all times. :D

trewqh
trewqh
the gleefully aggressive Vulking

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:57 pm

I am editing this to change the facts, I am in fact switching my game to a regular game instead of a speed game, since there seems to be a distinct lack of interest in that. That means turns will run twice a week, instead of three times. Deadlines between turns will be four days. I am retaining the five people that have signed up already, unless they request otherwise.

One more thing- my game will be a ratings voluntary game. That means I will not keep track of any ratings, but if players wish to, they can email the Gatekeeper (Donut) about any ratings changes and if he wishes to email me to confirm them I will. I find the rating system flawed and as such will not actively enforce it, although as the WSC has approved it any player who wishes to obviously can. If you have a problem with this, please do not sign up for my game.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Undertaker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: The Back Room (behind Sharky's place)
Contact:

Post by Undertaker » Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:55 pm

Dameon wrote:I am editing this to change the facts, I am in fact switching my game to a regular game instead of a speed game, since there seems to be a distinct lack of interest in that. That means turns will run twice a week, instead of three times. Deadlines between turns will be four days. I am retaining the five people that have signed up already, unless they request otherwise.

One more thing- my game will be a ratings voluntary game. That means I will not keep track of any ratings, but if players wish to, they can email the Gatekeeper (Donut) about any ratings changes and if he wishes to email me to confirm them I will. I find the rating system flawed and as such will not actively enforce it, although as the WSC has approved it any player who wishes to obviously can. If you have a problem with this, please do not sign up for my game.

OK, sign me up.
"That's a good question. Let me see...In my case, you know, I hate to advocate drugs or liquor, violence, insanity to anyone. But in my case it's worked." Hunter S. Thompson

User avatar
Donut
Warlord
Warlord
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Brew Town, WI; USA - BoV
Contact:

Post by Donut » Fri May 21, 2004 12:14 am

Ok, what are the rules going to be on GM's who don't rate games. TK has sent me the ratings for Nicks Laking it game. How are we going to handle this?

Code: Select all

TK      +0.135
Allister	+0.135
Trewqh	  +0.060
Raw    	+0.015
Skarn  	+0.015
Temujin	-0.030
Massi           -0.060
Ecrivian        -0.090
TR              -0.120
Validon 	-0.150
Donut
The scars remind us that the past is real.

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Fri May 21, 2004 1:14 am

No rating points are to be awarded for that games, or any of my games. I made it clear to the players when they entered that it was not rated, and when they signed up for my game they were agreeing to that fact. TK might have actually not understood this, as he entered the game as a sub for Taker before it actually started, but it is even stated in my house rules that my games are not rated, and all players are responsible for reading those.

I don't like the rating system because of the random RIP bonuses, and as long as they exist, my games will not be rated. If players are simply going to go over my head and rate the games personally and then the Gatekeeper chooses to use those ratings, I am simply not going to run any more games, at least until the system is fixed. So please do not use those numbers Josh, for they come from a non-rated game.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Donut
Warlord
Warlord
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Brew Town, WI; USA - BoV
Contact:

Post by Donut » Fri May 21, 2004 1:49 am

I understand that the game was not rated by you. I remember (vaguely) a discussion on whether a player could put forth the effort and tally the ratings changes themselves. I guess I'm just asking whether we came to a conclusion or if we can come to one now.

Donut
The scars remind us that the past is real.

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Fri May 21, 2004 4:30 am

My house rules page states my games are not rated. Note that it doesn't say "my games are not rated by me", but not rated, period. I don't want to run games if the ratings points in them are going to be used for a broken system, that's the whole point. The question isn't "are TKs ratings accurate?" (as I imagine they are), but "does the game support the rating system?", to which the answer is no. Plus, maybe TK wants the game rated, but I imagine there are some players who didn't do very well and would rather it not be. I said it wasn't going to be, so it's hardly fair to those players if it suddenly is rated, now is it?
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
trewqh
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Bialystok, Poland clan: The Vulkings

Post by trewqh » Fri May 21, 2004 8:40 am

Nick, puuuhhleeeese let us rate ourselves. I understand you don't like the system. But since you don't like it, why do you care for it that much? We like it so don't take the fun of looking at those numbers from us. It's not a fair system, but does it do any harm to anyone? On the other hand you are trying to take the fun from us. Anyone can keep their own rating system. The majority of players is OK with the one that WSC called official. I don't think it would be wise if I said I won't run any games if Bjorn will rate them for himslef the way he wants to.

What if we don't merge data form Nick's games with the official ones but make a separate column for it? :P It won't be official, but everyone will be able to compare them. :)

trewqh

ThinKing
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:00 am

Post by ThinKing » Fri May 21, 2004 11:27 am

Dameon's first post here is quite clear;

http://www.kaomaris.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 59&start=0


In case you dont want to search, here it is...


"...as a GM I am not going to keep track of any ratings changes, although if players want to do so and report it to the Gatekeeper they are welcome to as per the WSC vote."

User avatar
korexus
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Reading
Contact:

Post by korexus » Fri May 21, 2004 11:52 am

It does say "as per the WSC vote" and yet, the WSC never passed a vote saying that players could submit ratings. Infact, didn't we decide that they couldn't as in a non-rated game some people would want the ratings to count and others wouldn't? In fact, wasn't it you who pointed out that only the people who did well would want them to count and that this would be unfair on the people who didn't? :roll:
With Great Power comes Great Irritability

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Fri May 21, 2004 1:24 pm

Yeah, at the time I posted that I was game for that idea, until you personally pointed out that we shouldn't do that TK, because of the very reason Korexus mentioned here. When you pointed that out to me, I realized that you were right, and I shouldn't go for the half-a-loaf compromise. Between that point, and the point at which I officially started my game, I changed my stance and reflected that change on my house rules page. And sorry Mike, but while ratings don't count for anything now, they may in the future and I don't particularly feel like bouncing my house rules back and forth depending on the importance of the ratings at the time.

I don't think the WSC ever officially addressed this issue, but in the absence of a specific WSC ruling than the GMs house rules take precedence.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

ThinKing
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:00 am

Post by ThinKing » Fri May 21, 2004 2:58 pm

korexus wrote:In fact, wasn't it you who pointed out that only the people who did well would want them to count and that this would be unfair on the people who didn't? :roll:
Well, I went through all those posts to find the one sentence that I said on the issue;

"OK, so if I place in the top three in Nick's games, I will track my rating. Otherwise not. :roll: "

This was in response to Nick's suggestion that a player could track his/her OWN rating (and not everyone else's). So, your point is, erm, rubbish - I never mentioned "fairness" at all.


Instead I tracked EVERYONE's rating so that it can be used to help our system. Whether it helps to develop a more consistent scoring system, or whether it helps us to realise that the rating system needs to be changed, I dont honestly care. The truth is it gives us more data to use and therefore allows us to come to an INFORMED decision (unlike the 5 pages of bickering that the link above leads to).

I ask the community - is there any good reason NOT to use these ratings? At the moment, the only reason appears to be that Nick wants to be difficult. Any GOOD reason not to use the data??

Post Reply