The Worlds of Kaomaris

LOL.....I was also woundering the same, when I looked at the turn I thought at first I had taken out all of the defense and help TK out. I can't wait for that one to run over.

Massielita

Definitely DONT use commatas but points as separators. I repeatedly warned everyone about this. Check your countries settings to change it.

The POP bug (as it turned out) was a load/save bug that didnt correctly overwrite values in memory when loading up a second (previously saved) game. I seriously doubt it has returned from its grave...

You gots a short memory Al... the "POP Bug" was because of the MapMaker. If you didn't save prior to loading the MapMaker you were hosed...

It was suspected up to that point that the seperators were the cause. I still thought that the seperators were going to be a problem, but it wasn't one that had been proven I don't think.

Donut

Yup, the 'POP bug' and the 'DEF bug' came up at the same time, so we all assumed that they were the same thing. The poor, innocent commas were blamed for a while until Josh spotted that the map maker screwed up the POP. As neither bug seemed to be around after that was fixed the idea that they were the same thing seemed right.

But now the DEF bug is back and people are once again persecuting the commas. It's punctuation discrimination I tell you!


korexus.

Massielita wrote:I can't wait for that one to run over.

Massielita

Who said anything about a rerun?

Allister Fiend wrote:

Massielita wrote:I can't wait for that one to run over.

Massielita

Who said anything about a rerun?

Even with a re-run It'd be highly unlikely for Massie to win that fight. If you've taken three provinces then the chances of losing to someone with fresh troops is very high indeed, in fact the low DEF probably worked in Massie's favour in this game and he still lost...

On the other hand, Massielita seems to be doing well in unlikely fights in re-runs lately. Who knows what will happen?!?

No matter if I do better or worse, the Defense was wrong and it will effect the outcome for the first turn, since there was a bit of player interaction.

Massielita

So will there be a re-run or not?

I want to send in orders early but don't want to waste my time if it's going to change.

Allister

I'd say it's all a matter if somebody demands a rerun or not. If so I would initially deny it and send the matter on to the GMC on the basis that I do not think it effected the outcome of anything so far.
Another question is if this effect is now past us or if it will show up again somehow.
I guess I will send out an email to the group about this matter. I am truely sorry for any inconveniences.

// GM Fredrik

I have no preference either way. I guess the biggest question I have is: have the defenses for the neutrals been fixed or are they still low?
THAT would affect the way I play turn 2.

I guess I would have to put some thought into whether there was an advantage gained by any player due to the low defenses. Did the players who avoided conflict gain any advantage by being able to take 3 neutrals with low defenses.

Right off I would say there was no advantage gained by anyone but I haven't spent too much time on the subject. I guess that would be the biggest reason to re-run the turn if someone could prove there was an advantage gained by anyone due to the Def bug.

Well as I said in my email I do think there should be a rerun, however, if no one else agrees with me then I will stay with the hand dealt.

Massielita

OK somebody from the math dept needs to put some thought into this.

IN the case of the Massie TK thing. what is the difference?
Massie has fewer armies but has a higher PDEF in that battle if the defenses are right. He also has a SLIGHTLY higher level to his remaining armies due to the longer combats. Is there a difference in the chances of Massie holding off TK in that battle?

Same thing with Bjorn and Allister?

I guess the question is:
Is the battle MORE influenced by Def in the province, or by the number and level of the armies?

With the multiplier for DEF I am beginning to think there might be a difference but I am not THAT good at all the math to say one way or the other.

I did run some numbers on this and I based them on the rolls I had for my fighting, it seems I would have lost at least 4 more armies. Now running with fewer armies and a higher defense I still would lose (90% of time) but TK would end up with few armies then he did now.

I don't know what the other fights numbers were like so didn't bother trying that one, but it does look like there is some differnece. Also, every other person that wasn't in a fight would have more armies too because of the low defense.

Massielita

OK Al, Work your magic.

The Def of all my provinces reset back to 0.0 and 2.0 between turns so SOMETHING is definitely wrong.

Would you like for me to send you my Turn reports so you can look at them or can you figure this one out on your own.

I propose we put this game on hold until this is resolved. I really don't want to continue any farther if this is going to happen every turn.

I still suspect it is because of the commas instead of periods in the numbers but I don't know enough about the manager to say for certain.

I would also like to stop until the DEF of homes can be put back to 2.6 (where it should be).

It could be VERY important in the south.

Ok... I can't sleep... so I may as well be productive eh?

I ran turns using the newest manager and using both a comma and a decimal. It does seem to be the regional settings. Here's a couple of things I noticed:

1. The Data file is save correctly using either a comma or a period. The manager saves the DEF as an integer (23) and must divide by 10 somewhere in the manager.

2. The manager does not revert to 0.0 (or 0,0) but reverts to the initial values given (The DEF for players goes to 2.0 rather than 0.0).

3. The values are reverted "between turns." DEF's at the end of a TR are correct, and the DEF in the data files are correct. But the beginning of the TR is incorrect. This probably means that it's in the way the value is loaded. BUT, I'm not sure how the LEV values are correct if the comma should throw them off?

4. Everything is calculated correctly using either a comma or a period; with the exception of how it pulls the DEF from the data file.

Here's my guess... I don't actually have one... I think it's more of a coding thing then how something is calculated. Hopefully this helps find the problem. Even if it doesn't I don't believe that this game will need too much work to get back on track. The data files you have Fredo should be able to be used still... whether you use a comma, question mark, a 4 or a period as a seperator. It is gonna be necessary to go through and correct the DEF values though in my opinion.

Let's see if I can sleep now that I have this off of my chest...

Donut

I am going to have my say once more here. I think that because of the problem we need to start back at turn 1. Obviously there is something going wrong every turn and if we wait to long the game will be in trouble.

Massielita

LOL... if course thats what you think Massi. I'd say the same in your position.

So long as home DEFs are 2.6, I think we are OK. Neutral DEFs can stay at zero - nobody cares about that small amount anyway.

I have to agree with TK here... even though I'm probably going to get ruled...

Donut

you got served
owned
pwnd
w00t w00t