GM Josh - Lost Empire

WOK for Advanced Players

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GM Josh - Lost Empire

Post by Donut » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:22 pm

Ok, I think the INI is now working...

Here is my newest game, stirred from my crazy head. It will be an X-game. The main point is to make this a flat out Economic battle for most of the game. I think the rules I've put in place will make this a fairly long game, quite possibly reaching 30 turns. Here goes...

Each player will start out with a single province consisting of 20 armies, at level 1.000. Their Starting EFF will be 75, and they will have no wood.

Players will not be allowed to upgrade troops until:
Tech Level 5 - Archers available
Tech Level 10 - Knights available
Tech Level 15 - Catapults available

The map will not contain any Cities on it. At Tech Level 10, players will be able to build a city by increasing the DEF of a province to 6.0. At that point the province will become a city. The map will not display what provinces are cities however. In the event that the DEF of the city drops below 4.0, the city will be destroyed (Revert back to a normal province).

Creatures will become available when TL 15 is reached. In order to produce a Creature the player must own a city in the creatures preferred terrain.

I'm still open to any other suggestions that players have. I want to make it so that there is always a next step that the players can reach; which I think is somewhat acheived by making Catapults only available at TL 15. Only a few times have I seen a player in a game I've run reach this.

http://people.msoe.edu/~jorgensj/group9.html

Map Background:
The map is an outline of an artists conception of the lost city of Atlantis that I saw in a documentary about Atlantis on The Discovery Channel. The main island consists of irrigated square plains that the civilization rellied on for food, surrounded mostly by mountains on all sides. In the middle of the southern portion of the island is the City of Atlantis. The shape and design of the city are what intrigue most searchers. The city consists of 3 distinct circles seperated by water ways used for the transportation of goods. The water way running through the middle connects directly to the ocean (whatever ocean or major body of water that was).

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Post by Dameon » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:32 pm

Well, I don't see how this game would be longer than usual. The resource distribution is frankly crap. The way the map is set up, if you start in the city, you almost have to go to war early to be able to access that wood in the wilderness when you need it. Upgraded units are SO critical it's hard to win without wood; and whlie they may be delayed here they will still be a big factor. I ended up in an early war in Vegas for the same reasons; no access to wood. This map creates the same issue, which will spur conflict. The other side of the coin is if you start out in the wilderness, you have zero access to corn, even more critical. The end result? Likely war, again, as you try to grab some farmland. There's just no even resource distribution on the map, that will cause plenty of conflict. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, it's just not in line with your goals as I understand them.

The other thing I am pretty skeptical about is the city creation. 6.0 DEF is a LOT. If you do the math, with 8 WOK to 0.1 point of DEF (ya I had to look that up), then you would need 80 workers just to raise one province 1 point in DEF. Carrying that further, then you'd need to dedicate 80*5= 400 worker-hours just to get a city, assuming the DEF starts at 1.0. That's a pretty obscene amount of worker-hours, especially when they have so many other things to do.

I'd reduce the city-creation to a DEF of 4.0, with it being destroyed at less than 2.0, if I were you. That way you might actually SEE some cities, if players are willing to put in those 200 worker-hours, which I think is more likely. I'd also scotch the map and redo it so there's more even resource distribution if you really want a longer game; otherwise I doubt it will be.

It's very dififcult to create a economy-focused WOK game. My X-Game, Trade Wars, was probably the closest I have come and it still ended up being the folks with the most land won. It's just the nature of the beast, I think.
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Post by Donut » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:58 pm

I guess I didn't mention it in the first post but I had decided to have all players start outside of the city. I was also debating on having everyone start in a forest/mountain province. This is very possible and I don't think it causes too much crowding on the outside as it's pretty big.

My initial thought about the DEF of a city was actually 4.0. But when I thought about it a player could gain a city in 2 turns (1.5ish DEF with 120 WOK for 2 turns puts it at 4.5). My goal in placing it at 6.0 was to make it necessary to devote 3 turns to it.

The starting lvl of the players armies was also lowered in order to discourage early flat out fighting.

The Resource distribution doesn't phase me at all. It requires players to play several different strategies which is a goal of mine. I myself was somewhat skeptical about The Wanderer game that is running now, but the number of strategies being played is quite amusing to watch. And from the players I've talked to, most are enjoying the game. I like putting players in stressing positions and seeing how they come out of it. Being this is a WOK 5 game all players will be advanced and will be able to overcome many difficulties.

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Post by Allister Fiend » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:03 am

I have a funny feeling that everyone will get squashed on turn 1 by the nuetrals.

Bummer


75% EFF? come on, that's worse than a nuetral


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Post by Donut » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:49 am

C'mon now... it's been a week and a half and I only have 5 sign-ups so far.

I am going to get rid of the starting army part of the game. Players will start with normal armies at the normal level. This is about the only thing that I can see changing that anyone has mentioned. If anyone sees anything that could meke it more appealing let me know. And sign up already.

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Post by TK » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:35 pm

Donut wrote:If anyone sees anything that could meke it more appealing let me know.
Change the map. :roll:

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Post by Donut » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:55 pm

No... the map is the only thing I won't change. I'll even make it a normal game on that map, but I want the map. If this is the case I'll go back and add cities.

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Post by Donut » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:42 pm

Sweet... I was able to fill the group up and have just run and sent the initial turns. Good luck to everyone.

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Post by Validon » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:56 pm

Ummmmm Josh,
You filled the game but you have 3 players from The Square of 144. You might want to check that out before we go any further.

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Post by Duke » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:13 pm

Who cares? They are only for target practice before the end-game starts. Put 4 or 5 of them in there for all I care :wink:
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Post by Donut » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:27 pm

Ummm.... yea... What the crap did I do now? Ok, well, I'm going to have to get rid of a member of SoO. And then I'll need someone to fill the spot.

Sorry

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P.S. - Ryan is willing to take a spot but I'll need one of the SoO members to step down.
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Post by Dameon » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:32 pm

:lol:
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Post by Donut » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:48 am

Problem solved. Raw will be replacing MM.

Thanks MM

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Post by Underdog » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:52 am

NAH, Just have them do what I did.

e-mail that lost soul X-Wing and tell him you are leaving the clan to become a mercenary.
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Post by Underdog » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:55 am

But I don't like Raw. I think we should call upon Ecrivian to replace MM. I don't like having neighbors that are better than I am at this game.
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Post by Dameon » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:30 am

Underdog wrote:But I don't like Raw. I think we should call upon Ecrivian to replace MM. I don't like having neighbors that are better than I am at this game.
Raw has been losing his touch with age, I think, you probably don't have anything to worry about UD. :wink:
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Post by Donut » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:42 am

I'd still worry. He scares me at times.

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Post by Underdog » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:03 pm

but there is another reason.


He's...... Well, you know.
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Post by Aussie Gaz » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:15 pm

Donut

You said earlier in the post that you were going to change the game to a WOK4 game.

That is why I pulled out.

As it appears to be a WOK 5 game still I will take over a positon if you still need a player.

AG

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Post by Raw » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:06 pm

Dameon wrote:
Underdog wrote:But I don't like Raw. I think we should call upon Ecrivian to replace MM. I don't like having neighbors that are better than I am at this game.
Raw has been losing his touch with age, I think, you probably don't have anything to worry about UD. :wink:
I would like Ecrivian to take a place next to me on the map also ;).

As for age.....I am now old and not as wise as I used to be. I have also always been bad at WOK 5, so don't worry about me UnderwearDog.
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