RECRUITMENT

Post by **Duke** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:52 am

Do I need to point out the obvious jokes involved with Norwegian Schools?

Han, are you working on an introduction page or should I make one and send to Elling?

Oh, and I must add. Is it only me who see the fun X-files connection with Piggy looking for missing players and then goes missing himself?

Melonus Maximus · Post by **Melonus Maximus** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:55 pm

As a newbie I thought maybe some of my experiences of the game so far could help explain why retainment of new players is low.

1. From joining clan to 1st game - 2 months.

This is far too long. More training games like the one GM Stephen did a while back would help newbies learn the game while they waited for a proper one to start.

2. And I'm not blaming anyone but... when Thuggee folded I had problems joining a new clan.

Maybe no-one liked me but clan leaders need to check their posts, including their spambox, for applicants.

3. I can't find an online manual on the site.

This could be just me but for example the other day I was filling in my turn and needed to know whether I could use my missiles on an opponent. He was 3 provinces away and I wasn't sure whether I could or not. So I came to the homepage and the only person online was my opponent's teammate, obviously I didn't want him to know what I was up to. I had 2 hours before deadline, Lardmaster (our kid) was away and although I used the search facility and browsed the boards there is no help! Maybe someone could write a basic manual or if there is one already point me to it. Cheers

Hope this helps "the powers that be"

Post by **Donut** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:13 pm

LOL... I'm gonna guess you were going to bomb Funty in Han's game and I was the only person on... I seem to be that person quite often

. I would invite you however to ask almost anyone in the community about a question such as this. I know that speaking for myself I would never take advantage of a new players attempt to gain knowledge in a game I was playing.

I agree with you that the new site is somewhat hard to navigate at first glance, but after some time I've learned where almost everything is. That being said... The manual for WOK4 can be found under: Site Content > WOK4... or simply by clicking here: http://www.kaomaris.com/phpNuke/modules ... sit&lid=19

I think you have given us some much needed insight on our problem with keeping new players. I knew that the time from join-up to start-up of a first game was slow... but 2 months?!?!?!

Donut

Post by **Hannibal** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:27 pm

Hey, MelMax, you mean you're surviving in my game without having seen or read even the rules manual??! Hmm, you've oulasted Lille and Saladin, maybe they should follow your example (just kidding guys).

Feel free to mail me, as the GM, with any rules questions or general "what should I be trying to do" questions, though I'm not always at my PC. I've given you some general advice in my game? You should also rely a bit on your clanmate (given more than two hours)....to be honest, that's why I said I welcomed new players but only if they werre partnered by a clanmate who'd help.

I'm sure you've found it in the manual by now, but, if not, the bombing rule in WOK4 is that you can bomb any ADJACENT province and/or any prov NUMERICALLY within three numbers of the province you are bombing from, NOT three provs by distance. Thus, prov #34 could bomb provs #31-33 and/or provs #35-37, plus any province adjacent to it.

And thanks for the feedback on what we have to put right. And I hope you enjoy and stay.

~ Han

Post by **gm_al** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:49 am

The player influx - this is a tough one. The opinions go from "keep it religiously down to a few chosen ones" to "bring in zillions of n00bs if you can".

I think that every good gaming site needs some natural flow and new players all along its existance. As it has been pointed out WOK is by its nature neither a "fast" game nor an "easy" one (at first). I also fully agree that the access to Clans and (new) games needs to be optimised.

Again, this site lives by the goodwill, work and money of many people - so changes and improvements take time. In my view we have already accomplished a lot, and we are taking things step by step - but the steps get bigger as the environment grows. K2 should be an important step ahead, bringing together many aspects of the community and acting as central access point for all your WOK needs.

Games will get ported to online versions to allow more players in, and GMs will have their workload reduced. WOK SP isnt dead

! In fact WOK SP will kick off again soon (summer is over) and along will come WOK4 online and hopefully a new WOK game Im currently working on. Making games playable online and having the site cover most player needs should boost our member numbers.

Last word: thanx for keeping the faith with us, even in times of hacker attacks and relaunches !

Post by **Hannibal** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:21 am

Duke wrote:
Han, are you working on an introduction page or should I make one and send to Elling?

I'm working on one. Should finish a draft this weekend. Who's Elling??

~ Han

ZED · Post by **ZED** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:20 am

hey...

do you remember the newbie/vet game we had about a year ago?

I would like to see that again

Post by **Duke** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:47 am

Hannibal wrote: Who's Elling??

~ Han

That would be Mullog.

It refers to a person in a Norwegian movie that was popular like a year ago.

Well, popular in Norway and Sweden at least. I seriously doubt that it made it to any other country.

Post by **Duke** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:40 pm

How about this idea?

We put a form on the first page where you "sign up" for either wok4 or wok5. This goes automatically onto a waitlist where you see your position.

The GM's could then start a game when they see that the waitlist has reached 10 players (with the rules about clans etc) since "clan" should be one of the fields you put in you also see which one of a clan that is first in line.

The GM's should have authority to remove players from the list so that they can take away the top ten when they start off a group. (And choose which are the top ten in case the first five are from the same clan)

What do you think?

Calidus · Post by **Calidus** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:11 am

All of this talk of online GMs doesn't excite me at all. I play, or I should say that I recently returned to WOK becaue it IS slow. I work anywhere from 50-60 hours a week at work, on top of taking care of a family, and there is never time for me to sit down and spend 6-10 hours a day at a game that requires its players to have access just about every minute of the day. I find that unless, as a player in a game like that, you can spend numerous hours at the computer, you quickly fall behind the other players that either #1 don't have a life (dameon)

, or are students like TK (had to throw the pair of arch-rivals together in there, maybe they will start to argue now) that have more free time to devote to playing the game.

I think bringing back in the old folks is a great idea. I would definitely like to see such players as Dyana, Piebald, Tristao_w, Bicco, and many many others return to the field of battle. So get on out there and bring the fellas back around.

Melonus Maximus, go to the link on the side of your screen that says SITE CONTENT. Then click the link to WOK 4 and scroll down. You will find the manual there in Dutch, English, German, Portuguese, and Swedish.

I agree with MelMax though, there should be a better way for newbies to be trained and brought into the community. That was one of the main reasons that the number of players allowed in a clan was raised to 15. It never hurts for clan heads to post on other sites that they are looking for a few players to join their ranks.I believe that was how I managed to recruit nestalawe and nemesis to CoN when they joined. (they can dispute it if I am incorrect) I also believe that the new players should actively seek out a new clan, if their current one has dropped the ball on training.

Waitlists DO seem to be a problem right now. I do not know what the cause, but there just arent any open games right now. My guess is that all the GM that are "ACTIVE" have a fairly high game load right now, and just cannot carry any more than are currnetly being run by these great volunteers. I believe that I posted a week ago about a new wok5 waitlist, and I am still waiting. (1 week pales in comparison to MelMax's two months though.....)

Personally, I have thought of returning to being a GM, but quite frankly, I just don't have the time to dedicate to the cause on a regular basis and I will not let the players that want to play suffer because of my lack of time. It would just be unfair for them to have to wait an exorbitant amount of time for their turns to run, so I will have to stay out of the GM circle for now.

There always seems to be a major slow down in the comminuty though. It has happened on many occasions in the near four years that I have been playing WOK. It seriously comes in spurts. There will be a big influx, Dameon will run them all off, and then, there will be another big influx a couple of months down the road. Fear not, WOK will survive. One of the big reasons that WOK will survive, while so many have fallen to the wayside on the internet can be summarized by two words. "IT's FREE!" Thanks to Al and the other hard working men and women that make the WOK world possible. And a special thanks to all of the players that give so generously to keep WOK alive. (and if I can ever get my wife to loosen her grip of the checkbook, I may be able to give to the cause myself someday)

OK, thats enough from me for tonight.

-Calidus

Mullog · Post by **Mullog** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:56 am

First to Duke: Yeah! That is a great idea! And that is why it will be part of Kaobase V2 if I can ever find the time to complete it.
A waitlist would need a few funcitons: Players should be able to sign up and sign out if they change their mind, everyone should be able to see how many are waiting and how long they have waited

(MelMax would win that one!), and GM's should be able to pick players from the list and the players should then be notified that they have been added to a game. Now, if anyone would just take over my work for a week I could complete it quickly...

The Calidus:
The point of online GM'ing is (IMHO) not to run games faster but to reduce the GM's workload. This would allow the GM to run more games at the same time and it would make becoming a GM much more tempting for many.

And to Duke again:
Elling = Mullog? Nah! That would rather be Lille!

ZED · Post by **ZED** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:09 am

hello
i say more games to play, more players to enjoy them!

the realm of this fantastic universe is the players.. I have had just as much excitement in the exploits in of each person on the forums, while playing, as I have in the games. I love the individualitey of each player, and the avatars seem to mark a "coat of arms" in sense, and display themselves as it were as we ourselves do battle. This gossip, the rumors, the "nudge, nudge," or the "wink, wink" intrigues me to want to know more.
The history of this awsome world you have created, is something that is more than maybe you know. To me, that is more reason to play, and the more reason to get involved. When there is no game to play, and no open door to become active, the romance of becoming part of this world seems bleak.

It is not increasing different amount of games, but to allow the games to increase, and have each one run it's course. For instance, a league has it's schedule every week, come hell or high water, and an outcome. That with the forums, and the indivulas who make up kaomaris, will attract the best.

this is zed

phred · Post by **phred** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:20 am

Intersting topic!

Considering WOK had 50-60 active players a while ago, I think it might be an idea to research why people leave, and why people come back. Get in touch with them and see what they've got to say. Ask the ones that have actually returned and find out why.

I left a while ago, but haven't yet decided to come back. I probably will sooner or later, but am enjoying myself too much doing other things. A larger community would have been one reason to convince me to stay. It becomes quite a drag playing against the same old people every game, the same old diplomacy, the same old tactics. I also think online/automated GMing would be great. Games would always run on time, and you could always have a waitlist open. I know GMs have a difficult job, but it's so annoying having turns late all the time, and then the first time you're late, the turn has already been run. Automated turns. Yes please!

With automated play, it could even allow people to play anonymously. I would love a game where I could just get in and go for it, without anybody knowing who I am. Even better if the game had an inbuilt alliance system rather than how it is at the moment. That has always been a bugbear of mine, the over-reliance on diplomacy with the other players. I know some people love diplomacy, and rely on it to win the game, but others hate it. Do people leave the game because of this over-relaince on diplomacy? I don't know, but I suspect it's one of the reasons, and a reason why we can't build our player base much higher than it is now.

If the few who are involved in developing the games look at the best aspects of other games that are played, esp. PBEM or online games, and take the best elements from them, I'm sure WOK could be developed to suit a much larger community. Aspects for improvement: more players in a game, less reliance on external diplomacy, structured alliance system, regular/aautomated turns.

Similar thoughts for WOK SP. It has so much potential. Good concept, but a couple of fatal flaws. Again, developers could do well by joining a few other online games to see what can be done. NukeZone would be a good first start.

Good luck everyone.

Be back soon

Pharmer Phred

Post by **Donut** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:13 am

Well... the game is what it is. There's no changing the game. I think if people are able to actually try a game and finish it... they will like the game. It's very fun and has numerous strategies... there's no one way to win a game.

The last couple of games that have opened up have taken a bit to fill. I think that's why some are hesitant to open a game. Also, from my experience, it's not the GM that delays the game usually, it's usually the players themselves. Whether it be asking for a delay or by not sending in orders. If I was a jerk I would decline all extensions, but that's not the nature of the game, nor the nature of myself.

I do agree that we should start looking for old players to come back. Dookie... wanna head it up again?

Donut

Post by **Duke** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:40 am

phred, whoever you are, do not utter words like "anonymous play" or "less diplomacy" again.

This is what we love with this game. The diplomacy is as I see it almost the central core of the game. Anonymous play, well if that is what you are after then I am afraid this isnt the game for you.

Knowing you enemies is what makes it fun. The banter on the boards, the surprice when two enemies team up on you. Cant take it away without killing the soul of this community.

Maybe you should ask yourself this, if you left but still check the boards, then this game should have something appealing to it. Or you wouldnt have looked back after you left.

Nope, there isnt anything wrong with the game. It is the recruitment that sucks. I mean if extremely wierd activities can attract communities of several hundreds then it should be at least 100 people in the ENTIRE WORLD that would remain active in wok.

Donut, I will keep trying with oldtimers but most of the times they havent left any traces. Made up names and dead e-mail addresses are hard to battle with.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:55 am

Phred has some points though, I must admit that.

Our aim is to open the games to a larger public, but in a structured and more professional way. WOK has come a long way from its mom&pop days, but the largest part of the road is still ahead of us.

You should see that new online options are directed to facilitate gaming, not hinder it. Im seeing us build a kind of framework that players/GMs can rely upon and use. It means integrating a LOT of stuff we did manually before (Clan system, rating, parts of GMing etc.) but this is where I want to bring it, step by step. Fear not, as I see it the future looks promisisng.

Aussie Gaz · Post by **Aussie Gaz** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:43 am

Many, many moons ago someone created a single page flyer/handout for WOK.

It may still be accessible on the old website and it was perfect for putting on noticeboards etc.

Many players (myself included) are not as active as they once were.

phred · Post by **phred** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:41 pm

Duke wrote:This is what we love with this game. The diplomacy is as I see it almost the central core of the game. Anonymous play, well if that is what you are after then I am afraid this isnt the game for you.

Thanks for the reply. I agree, diplomacy will always be a part of the game. NAPs and alliances are also part of the game and are always done through Email. Most fights on the boards are through NAP breaking and mis-understood alliances. Many people have left because of it. If there was an inbuilt alliance system --- let's say I offer an alliance to a couple of players, if they take up my alliance request then I don't have to worry about them and I know they can't attack me, but if they don't accept my request, then we consider ourselves at war.

The above wouldn't stop diplomacy though Email - it could even enhance it if alliances are standardised through the game, but it would allow some players to play even without that extra burden of continuous diplomacy.

Knowing you enemies is what makes it fun. The banter on the boards, the surprice when two enemies team up on you. Cant take it away without killing the soul of this community.

Maybe you should ask yourself this, if you left but still check the boards, then this game should have something appealing to it. Or you wouldnt have looked back after you left.

Of course I call back regularly, to see if WOK SP has started up again, or Bryk has revivied his WOK MW, or to see if there have been any changes to the other games.

Nope, there isnt anything wrong with the game. It is the recruitment that sucks.

But it doesn't hurt to tinker from time to time if it improves the game and attracts/retains more people than it does now. I'm not necessarily talking about changing WOK4 or 5, perhaps it's for sometime in the future with WOK6 or 7. Al's the one who looks at the game development side, and he has to consider what direction to head for the future. If WOK SP becomes successful, then having other good games under the WOK banner could attact a lot of cross-over interest.

Keep up the good work, folks.

TK · Post by TK » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:20 pm

My guess is Bjorn.

Anyone else?

Raw · Post by **Raw** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:55 pm

Who was/is phred?

I don't recall seeing him around before?

The Worlds of Kaomaris

RECRUITMENT

How big would you like the WOK active community to be?