TDC Group C - GM Duke

Talk about the two player Standard WoK variant

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Dragonette
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Post by Dragonette » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:56 pm

but it cant be fixed for future duels if it keeps been abondened when something happens.

d

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Post by Duke » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:57 pm

Did it anyway and re-named the wrong group. Still 5 minutes to Traveller...
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Post by korexus » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:13 pm

And you re-ran turn 0, not turn 1. Thus over writing the previous turn 0 information and making both my and Dragonette's orders useless.

That makes three for three on something going wrong and you not following my advice, thus making the problem worse. I'm not happy putting this much effort in. WoK Online is not sustainable like this. Either something is going to change, or you can all go back to using the WoK IV game manager. Right now I don't care which.

For the record it is not just Duke that is making me feel this way, it's just that this game has been the flash point.


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Post by Dragonette » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:44 pm

deleted in interests of wok

d
Last edited by Dragonette on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dragonette » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:47 pm

deleted in interests of wok

d
Last edited by Dragonette on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Hannibal » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:08 am

Brykovian wrote:
hA<b>n</b>n<b><i>i</i></b>Ba<i><b>L</b></i> wrote:
korexus wrote:I'm less keen on/I'll avoid:
...
Water-Crossing
...
Han ... can you help me understand why you avoid this map for Duels? It'll be helpful when the map-designing bug hits me again.

-Bryk
I hope I didn't offend you! (Or anyone else). Just trying for a list that's useful for GM's of Duels

Water-Crossing is a lovely map for Standard. I've tried it in a Duel or two. For DUELS, it falls into generally the same camp as Original, Austria and S America : It's more interesting than they are, but still has too few "narrowings" to be my ideal for Duels . Too many sea-crossings!

In Duels, with the skillful blocking and shielding strategies afforded by the AA, BB and CC naps, it's more interesting to have routes where you can cleverly cut off a napped enemy colour ... Not TOO much (maybe Three Worlds goes too far with 3 pinchpoints), but in some areas.

Water-crossing is low on defendable routes. IMHO. For Duels. It can work out OK, but is not ideal, IMHO.

Might be fine for Duel-Lites.

Your Penta happens to be great for Standard AND for Duels as well!

I almost suggested it ... but didn't dare ... but since you ask: it would be great if you could ALSO do a version of Water-Crossing cancelling about half or a third of the ... er ... crossings? Only if you fancy it. It would be great to have a seventh that fits the bill for Duels.

But please give any new variant a completely different name? And nothing like Water-Crossing or Crossland or Cross Islands, or Skull Islands or Monster Island or Islettes ! In fact, just to remember them apart, we might also cut down on "...land", eg Homelands. Hyrkania? Atlantis?

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Post by Hannibal » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:24 am

We all appreciate how much effort you put in, Kor. It would fall apart without you. You're a brick. [That's a compliment in England].
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Post by Brykovian » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:43 am

Thanks, Han ... that makes perfect sense. There was no offense -- just curiousity. Doubt I'll build an updated WC map ... but I have something else on my mind that might happen in the next couple of months.

And, kor -- I agree with Han ... you're as good as a "Bryk" ... and that's saying a good deal where I come from. :D

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Post by Nemesis » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:02 am

I have never heard anyone called a 'brick' and I am from England!

'You're a rock' would be the expression I am familiar with

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Post by Duke » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:09 am

korexus wrote:And you re-ran turn 0, not turn 1. Thus over writing the previous turn 0 information and making both my and Dragonette's orders useless.

That makes three for three on something going wrong and you not following my advice, thus making the problem worse. I'm not happy putting this much effort in. WoK Online is not sustainable like this. Either something is going to change, or you can all go back to using the WoK IV game manager. Right now I don't care which.

For the record it is not just Duke that is making me feel this way, it's just that this game has been the flash point.


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Hey hey hey! Easy now big fella.

Ok, I might not have read your entire post but I think I corrected most things. I screwed up with two groups but I'll keep your precious manager healthy by using them for other games in my group.

I misunderstood you when you spoke about a re-run of turn 1. I understood it that the whole thing needed to be started over for the .ini to "take" but reading your post again I clearly see that only turn 1 was actually the case.

This being my first game as GM I think I am doing GREAT! :) I screwed it up much worse as GM of my first game with the old school manager. :?

As far as I can see you have both entered orders for turn 1 so I guess we go again. Or have I read something wrong? Any discussions about red herrings I havent understood?

Oh and I second those other guys with the fact that you are the pillar of this now after Al. Doing a better job as well. Not sure I want to call you a Bryk but that is more out of respect. 8)
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Post by Duke » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:27 am

Oh, my bad. Kor, you havent entered orders. Do you want this to errr change in some way or are you just angry at life in general?

Now, lighten up you all. I'll be on my toes from now on. I promise.
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Post by korexus » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:55 am

Dragonette, you mis-understand.

The Lobby is not always user friendly, especially for GMs. I know that and, as I put a large part of it together, I try to sort out problems as they appear. If you buy a product and it goes wrong, you expect the company that made or sold it to you to fix the problem. WoK may be free, but I feel the same principle should apply.

However, by the same token, if something goes wrong with your product and you start poking around trying to fix it yourself the company will not fix it for you. I got in from work at 5 yesterday and at quarter past 7 I finally gave up on trying to fix Duke's game. By contrast when you had the same neighbouring issue in your game it took me 3 minutes to fix because you did the right thing! You told me it had gone wrong, then waited for me to fix it, then followed my suggestions.

WoK was automated primarily to make life easier for GMs. Using the old system, a GM could run the turn in about 20 minutes. If it's automated and I have to spend 3 minutes every so often fixing things then that is a good trade off. If I have to spend 2 hours, it isn't.

Finally, it's not me being big headed. It's me being the only one who actually knows what he's talking about. Hannibal can say that the map is useless, but that's his opinion. I'm the one who knows how easy or hard a problem will be to fix and what the best way to do it is. That's what I mean by the system not being sustainable. In IT it's never a good idea to have only one person running a system, in case that person stops doing it for whatever reason. trewqh started to learn the wonders of the database, I'm sure Rune can remember most of the structure and Gaz could work it out if needed so WoK isn't going to fold if I get knocked down by a bus, but right now I'm the one doing the fixing and that means people need to do as I ask...


Duke, it looks like orders were entered for turn 1, but that is because we entered orders under the original setup. They haven't yet been overwritten (unless Dragonette has made new ones). Don't go running the turn or anything. Now we need to decide which of the three maps to play on...


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Post by Duke » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:15 am

So what do I do here?

To assume: To make an ass of u and me
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Post by Dragonette » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:23 am

sorry i will get rid of the affending posts and i did change my orders even though it took me a long time.

d

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Post by Duke » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:54 am

Well, sorry about taking everyones time with this. It wasnt my intention. Or, I wanted to take your time but with actual playing in mind. Not messing about in the manager or re-entering orders.

Hopefully we are all set soon and I'll think before I do anything.

On the good side I have learned some lessons from all of this.

Like the fact that you can call someone a brick in some parts of England but not in others.. 8) And Bryk in some 3-world country across the Atlantic :wink:
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Post by korexus » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:38 pm

I'll get over it. I just have to vent frustration, otherwise I'll end up going AWOL one day...

Duke, I recently put together a GM's guide, available through the content module. http://www.kaomaris.com/phpNuke/modules ... me=Content
It's split into three parts, for the short of attention span and it might help you out.

As Dragonette has entered orders already, I'll let her pick which map we play on. Then I'll reset the other two tonight and enter orders myself.


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Post by Hannibal » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:28 pm

Nemesis wrote:I have never heard anyone called a 'brick' and I am from England!

'You're a rock' would be the expression I am familiar with
Aw c'mon! I can't be the only English-speaker that knows the term. I just asked an American "pal" and he knew it. It's a bit archaic, granted, like "pal" or "chum" or "geezer" or "fab", but that was deliberate for effect. And it's just the right term: it means (meant) a reliable friend, generous in his (or her) support and help.

I chose it for effect.

And because it's fun and risky to use (on another Englishman): - if you mis-type the first letter, the effect can be very pad ... When spoken, some have perfected a semi-voiced mid-plosive half-way between b and p ... :wink:

Just fun.

H
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Post by korexus » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:42 pm

I think it was mostly used in "the famous five" or at least books of that type...

And the sentiment is appreciated. Although maybe less, now that I've read the explanation! :shock:


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Post by Tinker » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:49 pm

I don't know about it's level of appropriateness, but I do know the expression. From books, I think, not from real life.
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Post by Duke » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:43 pm

Tinker might be more familiar with the one starting with "p". :wink:
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