Duel-Lite Knock-Out for current champ

Talk about the two player Standard WoK variant

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trewqh
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Post by trewqh » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am

I'm in too many games for me right now. But I'll try to send orders for that one today. :)
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Post by Yondallus » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:06 pm

Congratulations to TBert, well played. I hadn't expected him to come for the robo so fast, so I hadn't put my armies in place to counter that move. Well played!
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Post by trewqh » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:50 pm

Tbert? TBERT?!?!?!

:P

:) Good game. You gave me a run for my money in that one.

I'll gladly face you in a rematch some day but now it's Aussie's turn to have his butt kicked. :sniper:

:D
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Post by Yondallus » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:09 pm

woops! but let's face it: for you, it's a compliment :P
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Post by Hannibal » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:24 pm

Yondallus wrote:woops! but let's face it: for you, it's a compliment :P
Hi Yond: Hey 8) Looks like you already feel outclassed for the fight for the BRONZE ... !

Er, I thought I mentioned this? :wink: The two losing semi-finalists play each other for the Bronze. Just like Olympic boxing. Which means you and TBert, who lost his semi to Aussie G.

So, you're about to take on the guy (TBert) that you *say* Trewqh should feel complimented to be confused with ... Just teasing! Do you want to concede now or do you want to take a shot at your hero for the Bronze?

No question. You and your hero HAVE to fight for the Bronze. So it's you v TBert. In my mind, the winner between you two gets to challenge the Gold-winner, thus maybe being a rematch and maybe not. If not, we've got rematches AS WELL to add to the drama!

OK. For the Bronze. Up for it, Yondallus and TBert? If so, there's the question of what map, when, and whether bidding or not ... See below about the Final?

H
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Post by korexus » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:27 pm

trewqh wrote:Tbert? TBERT?!?!?!
Actually, no. I believe it's "TBert". What is it with our members and capitalisation? :evil: :wink:

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Post by Hannibal » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:08 am

Right, we're ready for the Final. The Final of the Lite-Unbeatens. Aussie Gaz versus Trewq. AG beat TBert in their semi-final, giving AG a record of played 2 won 2. Trewqh just beat Yondallus in their semi-final, giving Trewqh a record of played 2 won 2. Only one of AG or Trewqh will emerge with a 100% record of played 3 won 3... Great fun!

I'm GMing it. The questions are: what map, and whether bidding or not.

You may recall that I set up the two semis to be identical at the start- not only the same Suburbia map, but the same start-provs and the same OOP for Turn 1. It was fun to see how the two semis diverged after an identical start ... quite a bit.

What I HAD had in mind, was that the Final would be on the same map (Suburbia), with the same start-provs and the same T1 OOP, ie starting out just like the semis, for a third time, see how it goes differently on a third run, especially now that both finalists can think back to how their semis went from this position ... riveting to see whether they play it differently from the two semis ...

And I always had in mind that the Final, using same start-up as the semis, would involve BIDDING for which side to start with ... Hehe! 8)

Y'see, you've both seen how the semis went, and probably have a view as to whether you won entirely on merit or were helped a bit by having the better or more exploitable starting-position ...

Note to make TBert and Yondallus a tiny bit happier: In retrospect, *I* think that Lt Blue/Lt Green had a better starting-position than Orange/Violet, ie AG and Trewqh, in retrospect, had a slight starting advantage from the start-map. I did my best as GM to make it even, but in retrospect, it slightly favoured Lt Blue/Lt Green over Orange/Violet? Not enough to decide the win, but enough for Yond and AG to think that they might well have won if it had been the other way around ...

Just for fun: Imagine that the winners AG and Trewqh are now thinking "No way; it was even" [Or else: "No way it was even"].

Ah, we can now put that to the test! Same map, same start, would AG and Trewqh prefer to start as Lt Blue/Lt Green again or as Orange/Violet??!

Well, they can bid for it. See rules on bidding at the end of WOK Duel Rules.

I'm guessing that they BOTH think that they enjoyed an advantage with Lt Blue/Lt Green, and would prefer that start. But by how much?! "Bidding" means that they both consider how much they would prefer to start as, in the Final, Lt Blue/Lt Green, or Orange/Violet.

As per those Bidding rules, they both make secret bids to the GM (me) in terms of how many POP they would be prepared to lose, before T1, from both of their start-provs, in order to get the side that they want. Higher bid gets that side, and loses that POP; lower bid gets the other side, loses no POP. ie self balancing as to even chance?

That's the route I'd prefer, ie Suburbia again, same start-provs and OOP, bid for which side you want this time!

But if you are sick of Suburbia, and want a fresh map, I'll go along with you. But it should probably STILL involve bidding for which side; a Final is too important for the start-up to be unequal, despite the GM's best efforts, and bidding means equalising, because you pay for the side you prefer ...

Comments?

H
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Post by Hannibal » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:28 am

korexus wrote:
trewqh wrote:Tbert? TBERT?!?!?!
Actually, no. I believe it's "TBert". What is it with our members and capitalisation? :evil: :wink:

korexus.
Uh-oh. Do my eyes deceive me, or has Kor/kor/kor feindishly just made it worse? He/he/he has devilishly just introduced emboldened as a name-trip, alongside capital or not, misplaced capitals, etc.

Ok, my name is now hAnniBaL. OK? Kor/kor, I trust you to get it right from here on? :wink:

Aw, c'mon, I'm gonna start doing people's names simply as Capitalus, Trewqh, Korexus, Tbert, Arbco, etc. etc. Too tough to remember personal fetishes!

H
There are two ways to write: Short-hand, and Long-Han'ed. ~ Han

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Post by Yondallus » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:28 am

Right hAnniBaL, sign me up for the bronze! Perhaps we should apply the same settings as the final?
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Post by korexus » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:32 am

No problem whatsoever, Hannibal. In fact, just for you, I'll go one step further. - You may want to check other instances of your name in the forums.

As for remembering people's preferances, it's not so difficult when it's written right next to their post... :P


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Post by trewqh » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:45 am

Same map, same setting with bidding works for me.

Besides I think something with voting mechanism broke down. When I issued a vote for a Solo win it didn't appear on the game's page. Same thing happened in the Homelands X-game.
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Post by Nemesis » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:52 am

[Test]

Hannibal

[/Test]

Edit: heh, it works :mrgreen:

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Post by Aussie Gaz » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:22 pm

Same map etc is fine with me.

Looking forward to it.

:)

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Post by Hannibal » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:42 pm

korexus wrote:No problem whatsoever, hA<b>n</b>n<b><i>i</i></b>Ba<i><b>L</b></i>. In fact, just for you, I'll go one step further. - You may want to check other instances of your name in the forums.

As for remembering people's preferances, it's not so difficult when it's written right next to their post... :P


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H
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Post by Hannibal » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:48 pm

Mind you, I do kinda like the look of it. Maybe it should stay. Hannibal. Hannibal. Hannibal. Yep, it's growing on me.

Hannibal :)
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Post by korexus » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:00 am

Although, I note it doesn't work when being quoted. :-(


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Post by Hannibal » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:45 am

Kor, a man of your calIbre could surely fix that! A couple of days hard graft from you and your jape will be complete! :wink:
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Post by Hannibal » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:25 pm

Aussie Gaz wrote:Same map etc is fine with me.

Looking forward to it.

:)
Right, at last a bit of spare time!

OK, both Aussie G and Trewqh have said yes to the Final starting with the same Suburbia map, same start-provs, same OOP for T1, as in the semis (the OOP after that goes its own way), and to bidding for which side to start with, since both won from being Lt Blue/Lt Green in their semis.... Maybe it was sheer skill, maybe LtBlue/Lt Green was a better starting-position (I think semi-final-losers Tbert and Yondallus would say Lt Blue/Lt Green was a better start! And they could well be right.)

OK, AG and Trewqh, time to get your bids in, secretly to me by e-mail. It's easier if I wait for your bids before I set up the game. Because there wd be a 50/50 chance that I, or Kor, wd then have the hassle of swapping you over on the published T0 map, which is not that easy. I could swap over colours by GM editing, but that wd have the effect of the colours being the opposite way round to in the semis, for comparison.

Anyway, you don't need the "new" start-map to bid. For position and Robos, just look at "Turn 0 is out" in your semi-finals; yep, you can view that.

Here's a reminder for you of the four human start-provs involved:

As well as the usual 12A @ 1.75, and 24W on Def, they have the following Pop AFTER T0 has run, ready for T1 orders:

Lt Blue #56 184P
Lt Green #20 126P

Orange #50 72P
Violet #35 184P

So, [until I persuade you all that in all Wok the prov you start with should acquire a standard 100P for fairness!], note that Lt Blue/LtGreen ALREADY starts with a 54Pop advantage ... quite apart from any positional or OOP advantages or disadvantages!

You can't bid more Pop than there are there to be removed. So, if either of you chose to bid for Orange/Violet (!), the max bid would be 72P. More relevantly, probably, the max bid for Lt Blue/Lt Green is 126P, which would indeed mean you gave up 126 Pop from BOTH #20 and #56, GM to remove before T1 runs.

I think it's only fair to give AG, who has never bid before, a bit of a catch-up on "bidding behaviour so far". When Trewqh bid against Saladin for a position they both wanted, one bid was 15 or so, the other in the 50's. Ie it could have been won more cheaply, but it might have been worth it anyway. I think, basically, each of you decides whether the other will seriously bid, or put in a low bid; if you both go serious, one of you paid a lot; if you both go low, then one of you gets it cheap, just bidding a tiny bit more than the other's low bid ...

Hey, I want bidding to work. So I'll repeat, to both, that one of the pairs ALREADY starts with 54Pop more than the other pair ...

Remember: you only pay for a successful bid, not for a failed bid.

OK, send me your bids, then I'll announce who got which and set up the game. G'luck and enjoy.

Han
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Post by korexus » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:35 am

And he wonders why I think bidding is needless and complicated... :roll: :wink:


Just a couple of serious points:
there wd be a 50/50 chance that I, or Kor, wd then have the hassle of swapping you over on the published T0 map, which is not that easy.
Actually, this should be quite doable now. Change the owner number of the relevant provinces in "edit province data" and the home province field in "edit player data". The map will look the same, there would be a 50% chance of having to swap the OOP around, but again that's easy.

until I persuade you all that in all Wok the prov you start with should acquire a standard 100P for fairness!
Never going to happen. Never, never, NEVER!


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Post by Hannibal » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:17 am

The Final is off and running. Sorry for the delay, AG. It took me ages, as I knew it would, to generate the game and edit it back to how the semi's started. Done. Except that there's a glitch on editing the OOP to be the same as it was in both semis. For max comparability between the start-outs, for interest. I've retro-fitted everything else to match how both semis started, but the OOP-edit isn't working yet, after 3 tries. SO, you can both consider the map, can both look back at how the identical start played out in the two semis, and both put in T1 orders. Assume that the OOP for upcoming Turn 1 is:
8 - 9 - 1 - 7 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 10.

ie just as at the start of both semis. It'll be fun for you (and us) to see whether either of you tries a different set of T1 orders from your two semis ...? :wink:

OK, do your orders, but don't press Ready till Kor or I tell you that the OOP will indeed run as above, OK?

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