Duel #05 Suburbia - Game In Progress

[Hannibal]

This Duel game, between poor Hannibal and the mighty Hryllantre, started December 2006.

This thread is for Han and Hryll to both comment on the game as it goes along. Yep, real analysis of what each ran into that they didn't expect, and/or why they went for there that the opponent might be mystified by.

For any reader/watcher now, or readers in months to come reading back on these threads, it might be a fun read - switching between the comments/analysis/taunts here, and the turns as they run on the Duel #05 game page with its results and maps.

A slight plus of the Duel variant is that players can banter with each other, and even let outsiders hear the banter as here. Because, if there has been a lucky win in a battle, then BOTH players know it from their Turn Reports, and there is not the usual secrecy from the other 8 players .... no point. Similarly, if one of us spies, we can rib the other about it publicly, since we BOTH know who got what spying results, so we don't need to hide any references from others.

So here (and future such threads for Duel games), the two players can comment or tease, and any watchers can follow the WHY of what happens on the gamesite map, by switching between the two. Of course, any comments or taunts between the two players here are mainly retrospective about the last turn run; anything implying anything about the future, they/we are likely to be vague or even misleading about! OK?

Do not expect this to be a 100% commentary. We post when we want to say something about the last turn, and not when we don't. And we might mislead - not on facts we both know, but on reasons and plans; after all, this is live, and we are trying to outguess and mislead each other ...

Han

[Hannibal]

BTW, once we get going, ANYBODY can join in posting here, eg thoughts on what just happened or even thoughts on what either player might do next!! (We'll both read it, so the other guy might counter it!). Hey, anything for people to participate and enjoy!

The GM/Moderator, in this case Kor, is also most welcome to chip in, taunt, comment, in any way he considers does not inform or help one of the players over the other. Hey, we're here to have fun! Joining in is more important than strict codes for the game ....

FEEL FREE TO POST.

[Hannibal]

Before I created this thread, we adversaries, Han and Hryll, were mailing each other. So I capture the main points here in setting up the thread.

GM Chris (Korexus) chose the Suburbia map, and chose a start-run that would be interesting. Hryllantre had the choice of sides, and chose Brown/Orange/Red, leaving Yellow/Lt Green/Lt Blue to Hannibal. Mwahahahaha!

BEFORE TURN 1
Hryll wrote:
Intrigue has got the better of me thus forcing me to ask what we should already know. Have you left a space in Province #9 for me to attack into next turn (when it arrives). My thinking is that you have not;

This was before Han's orders for Turn 1 were in, but he (I) was not to be led astray by such taunts, so stuck to going in the opposite direction, and leaving said prov #09 neutral and vulnerable as a backdoor to the area that is patently the realm of Han's Yellows .....

[Hannibal]

AFTER TURN 1

Hryll mails:

Hi Han,
My orders will be completed this evening as I've got guests over for this weekend.
I completely forgot about attacking 3x on the first turn - I played safe and took (2) provinces (wow)...

Ha!! This is after those unfortunate Turn 1 results ... (for Han) ... and Hryll is obviously trying to lull Han (me) into thinking that Hryll was just lucky on Turn 1, playing brilliantly accidentally ....

Hmm.... *thinks Han* ... no-one could play Turn 1 that brilliantly and it be by forgetting the basic rules!!!! No, no, this Hryllantre is not as stupid as he pretends .... he is a genius feigning idiocy .... else how could he have got the better of me during Turn 1 ??!

[korexus]

If you want to make your posts more intersting, you can finish it with the following link.
http://www.kaomaris.com/phpNuke/modules ... R=(turn+1)

where (turn+1) is replaced by the number of the turn you want people to see plus one. Appologies for the illogical setup, but I never thought of people linking to games from the forums.

Obviously, players of other games will have to change the gameid too. If quoting games in posts is going to become a regular thing I'll see what I can do to include it...

Chris.

[Hannibal]

AFTER TURN 1

Drat. Double drat. And a few exclamation marks to boot.

Ha! I've just been through my TR's. Don't believe a word of Hryll's protestatons that he mistook the rules ...... and came out ahead through it.

His Red only went 26-27-25 (and not on to 24) because he (unconsciously?) worried that if he went on and took #24, my Light Greens might have taken it, third attack, from #41, and retaken #24 from Hryll's Reds. HA!

And his Browns ..... they only tried for two provs, but it's clear: They went #38-22-35, and didn't risk one step further into #37. Ha!. That's not because Hryll mistook the rules, but because he realised that if he'd ordered a step further, into #37, he might have bounced off Han's Lt Greens if they had gone only to one neutral and stopped there in #37 ...

But Hryll was smarter than that!; he went for and took #22 and 35 (ouch!), and didn't risk the riskier scenario of trying for #37, just in case Han stopped there in hope of a bounce-off. Drat, Darn that Hryllantre who keeps getting it right ....

And Hryll's third colour: Orange. Hmmm. He only took #48 and held it. Han was surprised ... Smart move. He was clearly catering for the possibility that Han's Lt Blues would try to go #48 and onwards, and thus bounce off Hryll's first-taken prov of #48, thus bouncing off his first prov and gaining no others .... Nice try; but Han's Lt Blues went the other way ....

[Hannibal]

AFTER TURN 1

Han: OUCH!! First round to Hryll. We could easily have bumped into each other in #54, or #45, 44 or 15 (I tried!), but we clashed in just one place -- #35 -- Han took it, but Hryll attacked and took ownership.

Tcha!. OK, round one is over (kudos to Hryll), but the war goes on ...

[Hannibal]

If you want to make your posts more intersting, you can finish it with the following link.
http://www.kaomaris.com/phpNuke/modules ... R=(turn+1)

where (turn+1) is replaced by the number of the turn you want people to see plus one. Appologies for the illogical setup, but I never thought of people linking to games from the forums.

Obviously, players of other games will have to change the gameid too. If quoting games in posts is going to become a regular thing I'll see what I can do to include it...

Chris.

Thanks, Kor, but I'd never manage or remember to do that. So not worth any effort from you. And no-one else will. So regard this as rare, and that anyone interested would find the game itself and flick between the two, rather than needing a link. Hey, you short of things to code?! I have lots of ideas ....

[Hryllantre]

Well the first turn went as expected 'pretty much'.

Light Green (41) was the only colour I could get the upper hand with as it moved before my Brown (38). Province (35) was key as if Light Green was to gain control of it I would be boxed in. With this in mind I decided to go against Neutral province (22) to build my Troop Level up before attacking into (35). There was no need to attack into (37) as this would of messed up my logistical route ie (movement/redeployment) (Han are you reading this) if I failed to take it.

Anyway all went well on the Eastern Island.

The Western Island was a completely different tactical situation. Han had kindly pointed out to me the importance of avoiding the route of the Robo (A1) provinces, whilst also taking the time to include the value of using the very handy tactical advantage of the initial NAP's. In this instance Lt Green and Orange - (I'll edit for quotes later) - I think Han wanted me to push towards (41) from (46) tp allow (49) Light Blue to intercept my gained provinces...

Anyway all went well on the Western Island.

I thought I best write this before submitting my next set of orders as I sense my cautious start has left me shy of Population.

[Hannibal]

STILL AFTER TURN 1

Well the first turn went as expected 'pretty much'.

...this would of messed up my logistical route ie (movement/redeployment) (Han are you reading this)

You betcha I'm reading it! Looking for any clues to come back at you after you outguessed me on Turn 1, drat.

Anyway all went well on the Eastern Island.

I'm afraid you're right there. Time to send in the cavalry ...

The Western Island was a completely different tactical situation. Han had kindly pointed out to me the importance of avoiding the route of the Robo (A1) provinces, whilst also taking the time to include the value of using the very handy tactical advantage of the initial NAP's. In this instance Lt Green and Orange - (I'll edit for quotes later) - I think Han wanted me to push towards (41) from (46) tp allow (49) Light Blue to intercept my gained provinces...

I know you're only teasing ... how ironic that you should suspect a trap where I wasn't laying one, and yet turn out to be right! (Are you SURE you haven't already played Duel!?).

KEY POINT: I did indeed mail you about the importance of noting the predictable route of the Roboplayers ... and of tactically using the naps between A and A, B and B, C and C ... (hey, I want the other guy to play well and challengingly, so these were useful tips!) ... but that was my "hello" mail, pointing out some aspects of Duel, and IT WAS BEFORE YOU CHOSE what side to be (Brown/Orange/Red or Yellow/Blue/Green), and before I even looked at the map tactically from either's POV. SO, those tips, then, certainly weren't trying to con you into wrong tactics, OK?! (But now that the game is underway, I'm allowed to bluff/ mislead /con as much as possible ...!! Mwahahahaha!).

But, once you chose Brown/Orange/Red and I THEN looked at our positions .... yes, I thought I might just cane you in the north of Western Island!! : I thought your Orange might see limited room west, given Roboviolet, so there was a good chance you would go east instead, either 45-44-16, or 45-15-16. So I tried for my Lt Blues to come in after and behind you, hoping to retake #45 and #44 (OR #15) after you had done the fighting with the neutrsal defenders, for easy wins that gave me the POP, denied the POP to you, and messed up your transform and movement orders!

But if you hadn't gone that way, then I took those neutrals near you, limiting you.

You hadn't gone that way (drat), but I was on a Big Win or OK (unless you had taken and stopped at #45 and I had bounced off - disaster!!) ...

Anyway all went well on the Western Island.

- yes, I thought so too, from MY point of view!!

I thought I best write this before submitting my next set of orders as I sense my cautious start has left me shy of Population.

Yep. You spotted it. Why do you think my Yellows are in #54, cutting off the neck of your Orange's access to the rich lands of the South of West Island!!

And that might attract your Reds to come that way ... thus taking pressure off my overwhelmed Lt Greens ....?

Hmmm. I'm considering squeezing your Oranges (!!) this turn and wiping them out next .... or I might come to the rescue of my Lt Greens, - after all, my Lt Blues are in #16 and could go #43-18-19 - how would your Browns think about THAT?!

Just joshing you. Lots of options for Turn 2, both tactical and strategic. For both of us. Round one to you (the battle for #35), but the WAR is still anybody's!!

[Hryllantre]

Round 1 can easily be deemed a Tie...

Tactically - I triumphed - By forgetting the rules thus airing on the side of caution.

Strategically - Han won - His plentiful supply of ready recruits (pop) and willing scientists (wok) will win the day.

The turn 2 Order of Play (OOP) hasn't been kind to me, once again I have to be careful where I attack because Han can easily follow my routes and claim the provinces as his own again .

Turn 3 will decide this game as missiles if successful against their targets can decimate all a provinces armies.

I won't be goaded into attacking into a trap -

Hmmm. I'm considering squeezing your Oranges (!!) this turn and wiping them out next .... or I might come to the rescue of my Lt Greens, - after all, my Lt Blues are in #16 and could go #43-18-19 - how would your Browns think about THAT?!

- They would love that

My reds have their own agenda one which will surprise a few players.

Browns will be removing Light Greens from the Western Island BUT where will they go next...

The outnumbered Oranges have been set only one task. To frustrate Han's armies for as long as possible (hit & run tactics) tying up valuable armies in the North until my RED & BROWN armies can command the South.

To Win (truely win) you have to reduce your opponent to ONLY 1 colour. I expect Light Blue to let Light Green through its own provinces to guard them. Unfortuneately I can't reach Orange in time to save them.

Han you need to sit down and relax! I think your confusing your own brain. Your armies have been inflitrated by my most experienced spy (Mrs Smith), she has been misleading your best *cough* general with dodgy intelligence reports.

[Hannibal]

Your armies have been inflitrated by my most experienced spy (Mrs Smith), she has been misleading your best *cough* general with dodgy intelligence reports.

Thanks for the tip-off. Right. I couldn't find this Mrs Smith. So I executed, er, I mean fired permanently, my Head of Counter-Intelligence. In his place I've appointed a really expert-sounding person .... she's new around here ...called Mrs. Jones ... I place my trust in her

Oh, and it was hard to work out who might be this "best" general that was being misled by your Mrs. Smith ... so I executed ALL the good generals just to be sure.

[Hryllantre]

It'll all be over next turn.

Sorry Han

[Hannibal]

BEFORE TURN 3

I bet you it's not!

After all, my Light Greens may be for the chop, but my Yellows now own SEVEN provs, and your Oranges and Reds between them have SIX attacks, I assume, one too few to wipe my Yellows this turn. And all my Yellow's brave armies, loyal workers and submissive population, are of course in the one prov that you'll leave unattacked!

And then my Light Blues come to the rescue on Turn 4, --- lucky to go early in the T4 OOP, they crush the Oranges and Reds besieging my last Yellow prov, before they can attack my last Yellows!

On the other hand, if you reduce me to no-chance, I'll concede and you'll be right, well played, great ..... time to try out Duel-Lite!

[Hryllantre]

lol

I was talking about my chances as I goofed my orders when I fiddled...

Your plans seemed genuine as a retort though, I'll start fiddling

[Hannibal]

BEFORE TURN 3

lol

I was talking about my chances as I goofed my orders when I fiddled...

Your plans seemed genuine as a retort though, I start fiddling

What?

I honestly thought that your "It'll all be over next turn. Sorry Han." was a boast that YOU would win this turn; you mean it was the opposite?!

Er, you are actually WINNING at the moment, you realise? You outsmarted me on Turn 1 (you claim it was ignorance of the rules!!); and won the one major battle between us of Turn 2, wiping out the last of my Lt Green armies...

Let's assume that my Lt Greens are toast to your Browns this Turn 3 coming. All you need is to wipe my Yellows, this turn or next, and you've won by reducing me to one colour, whatever i do with my Lt Blues. And you've moved your Oranges and Reds to #50 and #01 to overrun my yellpws ...

Goofed?! Then you're in danger of thrashing me by accident!

[Hannibal]

lol

I goofed my orders when I fiddled...

BTW, I reckon we all goof orders, especially when doing 3 sets. For example, last turn I ordered my Lt Greens to spy in the right place ...and even from the right place... but left the number of spies used as 00 each time ...Oops. And one main force stopped 2 provs short of where I was trying to send it ... I mistyped a prov number they had to pass through. Oh well, now it'll just have to attack somewhere else than I'd planned...

[trewqh]

What?

I honestly thought that your "It'll all be over next turn. Sorry Han." was a boast that YOU would win this turn; you mean it was the opposite?!

Er, you are actually WINNING at the moment, you realise?

It's that "He's-doing-better-than-me" Duel Syndrome again.

[Hannibal]

It's that "He's-doing-better-than-me" Duel Syndrome again.

Hey, trewqh, my man, you're not trying to imply that I PRETEND that I'm currently losing when I'm not, are you?! Syndrome!

In the game you and I played, you KNOW it was true that you got off to a great start and were truly well ahead for most of the game, right? Then I got lucky ... But you WERE ahead for 6 turns, right?!

And Hryll really is ahead at the moment (hey, Hryll, want to swap sides right now??).

OK, I try to be encouraging, but I'm not faking the fact that I really am currently losing! But I'm still in with a chance, hehe, ... only as badly off as I was against trewqh at this stage

[Hannibal]

AFTER TURN 3

Ouch! I'm still getting slaughtered here. (no kidding).

Hryll's Oranges and Reds just went rampant through my Yellows, together taking 4 of my 7 provs and screwing up my attacks, transforms and moves, such that my Yellows captured, er, nothing.

In the South of West Island, Red got a bit lucky, reward for being bold. My 12 armies and 23 missiles in #58 faced his 34 armies in #01 coming for me (I'd spied them). My missiles reduced his 34A to 20A, and my better Eff meant the odds slightly favoured me, I think, as his remaining 20A attacked my 12A defending #01. Fortune favoured the brave, Hryll's Reds won the battle, handsomely, and ploughed on through...

In the North of West Island, Hryll won by a brilliant surprise move ... he smashed sideways through Roboviolet (#50-51), then through a neutral (#53), and into my Yellow hinterland (#55). I'm not going to say whether smashing through my #54 instead of going via Roboviolet would have been just as good or not, but it was a a clever outflanking that worked.

But at least my Lt Greens weren't wiped out in East Island. No thanks to me. My desperate Lt Greens bombed from #41 to #37 ... only to find no armies there to be killed ... hmmm... wasted missiles, but happy to see that there were no armies there in #37 to walk into my undefended last Lt Green prov!! Clearly, that's what Hryll meant by having goofed his orders. I only wasted missiles on #37 because I, too, had goofed my orders that same last turn, and failed to spy on #37, otherwise I wouldn't have wastted those missiles on it ....

Ah well. two of my colours are in trouble (and that's all it takes). My Lt Blues now don't know whether to try to save my Yellows or my Lt Greens! (or am I bluffing Hryll by saying that ...?).

Anyway, it's complex and fun.

Hey, in the history of Duel, Kor lost to trewqh, trewqh lost to me, I'm about to lose to Hryll ... all it needs to complete the circle is for Hryll to lose to Kor, then we are all square!