Standard Wok: 2-player "Duel" !!

[korexus]

Hmm, I guess you could get a LEV bonus out of it, if you attacked out first. The amount lost when taking over is GM definable, so could be 0. And if your opponent was trying to be very sneaky with the NAP settings (eg. surround your player A with his player A) this sort of switch would surprise him a lot.

It'd have to be a pretty unusual map placement or ame rules, but I can see it working...



korexus.

[Hannibal]

One more thing:

Since there are only two players involved - I think we could allow the players to vote after turn 0 whether they like their starting provinces. That would eliminate the risk of one player having a lucky 'georaphical' advantage.

It would work like this - after turn 0 both players e-mail their GM with a message ('Yes' or 'No') regarding whether their starting position suits them. If both players say 'Yes' the game proceeds, if either says 'No' the GM reruns turn 0.

I think players will realise that voting 'No' to potentially disadvantage the opposing player is pointless since the opposing player will never agree to a disadvantaged position. So this system would not stall the game.

How do you like it?

trewqh

Yep, I like it a lot. Great thought. I'd hate a game to start with one or other player thinking the random-start-provs gave him a lesser chance right from the off. So we'll include that as standard. If you want to be seriously logical about all-possible-scenarios (as you were being on headhunting your own partners?), then someone might cavil about what happens if two desperate-to-win-players KEEP, one after the other, refusing a generated map ...... Ok, just for completion's sake (it'll never happen): The max is 5 iterations of generating a map, at which point one of them has to be chosen. The GM asks each player to rule out two as no-nos, and then picks the one (or between the non-vetoed ones) to call which one is adopted.

OK, that makes it a system and a rule. But it'lll never come to that. The beauty of your idea is that IF a first-throw map is unbalanced, either player can ask for a new map-start instead. I fully agree. Done.

Er ... the only prob is that the god we know as Kor said he had no mechanism for the GM to "interfere" by cancelling a map-start and running it again (I asked him about that in Cross Island when the start-map seemed to so favour two veterans with acres of space). So, Kor, a way to cancel and restart the start-map?

Cheers,
Han

[trewqh]

I'm glad you like my idea.

As for 'cancelling a map-start and running it again'; I'm not familiar with WOK-ON GMing so I don't know how much work it would involve but how about deleting and opening up the game/group again?

trewqh

[korexus]

Guys.

*Come to the chat room*

[Hannibal]

Right, I issued Turn #00, but all three of us can see that it didn't quite work. (Neither of you needs to get excited and put in turns, right?) I'll restart. Good system-testing.

It gave the start-map with the 6 player-slots for the two players, but did not include the 4 Roboplayers. So it's void, we'll restart.

I'd recommend for the purposes of playtesting that you enter the autogm as playing the 4 neutrals, currently they're set as playerid0 and I have no idea if their orders will be processed. You'll still have to enter the orders of course, but that's the easiest way of having them treated as players.Chris.

OK, I tried my best! I agreed that this "autogm" should play the 4 player-neutrals ...... yeah, but how?! .... I went to the screen where the GM selects "player" from a list, searched for the option of "autogm", didn't find it, and wildly guessed, faute de mieux, that "Nobody" might just call up this "autogm" to play for them .... at least till I could submit GM orders for them..... Apparently not. They don't appear on the start-map.

OK, Kor, what did I do wrong?! Where's the button for this "autogm"?

Kor, friend, I'm sorry to have let you down by missing what you thought might be obvious? Maybe I should have let YOU be GM for the first trial, so that you could just fix it instead of having to tell me how to ....... but that was deliberate ...... if you had been the first GM, you'd have fixed any problems your clever way, only to have to explain the workings many times in the future .... If I am the GM when we sort the GM problems, you'll have to sort them in transparent ways that even an idiot GM can follow ...... (Telescope?).

So, tell me how to make the 4 Robot-players active, accepted, and appearing on the start-map?

Cheers,
Han

[Hannibal]

I'm glad you like my idea.

As for 'cancelling a map-start and running it again'; I'm not familiar with WOK-ON GMing so I don't know how much work it would involve but how about deleting and opening up the game/group again?

trewqh

Hidden consequences. You probably didn't consider that this would mean I had to write the WHOLE houserules all over again?!! From scratch. An hour or two. Or do you know how I can simply (!) copy them and re-apply to the new game?

Han

[trewqh]

You could save them in a regular text file on your computer.

E-mail me if you need clarification.

trewqh

[Hannibal]

You could save them in a regular text file on your computer.

E-mail me if you need clarification.

trewqh

Yep, and I realise, gratefully, that you are trying to double-guess just how dumb I am ........and trying to be helpful ..... I already got the hang of saving to a word-file .... but that's only the easy half .... what's my chance of ever figuring out how to then re-apply it to a new game ...."import", "copy", "insert file", "html file required"; that's the bit that dumb I am worried about ..... and not easy to test-run without cancelling the previous game .....

Han

[trewqh]

I'll e-mail you about this in the morning.

As for now: what is the default wroking aim of neutral provinces in WOK-ON generally and in this game?

trewqh

[Hannibal]

The default aim of the neutrals, as in all current standard games, is DEF. Each neutral starts with 5A, 16W and .3 DEF - but by the time you get to start of Turn1, as always, they are 7A, 16W and .5 DEF.

The 4 Robot-players are different. They start as each of yours do, as players. Their start-aim is TEC, but they switch it to MISS in turn1 orders. (They don't have a lot of use for TECH).

Han

[Hannibal]

OK, Korexus and Trewqh, Turn #00 is out to you (as far as I can tell). At least, the rest of us can see the map for the game in the list-of-games).

So, as per Trewqh's prescient suggestion, I now need to hear from each of you "yes" to this start, or "no", run it again for different starting-provs.

Hmmm .... I wouldn't blame you if one of you asked for a re-roll/new start map. Two of the Robot-players headed your way .......("Think of it as a challenge", Kor!) - no, only kidding, I'd be very happy to re-roll, not least because two of the Robot-players look to influence only each other ......

So well done Trewqh for spotting this issue ahead of the event ...... A bad start-position is harder to recover from in this game, where you can't diplomatise your way out of it, so we need an "equal" start-map. Even for a beta-test. Learning already.

Han

[Hannibal]

OK, Kor, how do I re-issue a new Turn 0, cancelling the last one? We'll need this facility for "Duel". (I'm just assuming you'll say no to the current start-map .... only to test the system, of course!).

Han

PS, That means, Trewqh and Kor, don't waste time on orders from current map, as I expect we'll issue a new one, fairer, to replace it.

[Hannibal]

You already had WOKMax as 100, I set ARMMax to 100 and LEV/ARM as 0.00125 (not quite what you asked for as LEV is produced continuously, not in discrete chunks like missiles.)

Great, thanks .... but 0.00125 ? You mean each worker gives 0.00125 lev per turn to every army in the prov? That would mean that 100W give only 0.125 lev each turn? No, I wasn't after anything as low as that, if I've understood you right. The old rules have it as 0.005 on lev per worker per turn, and your re-write has it as 0.003. I wanted to go BACK to the old rate, 0.005, but limit it to 100W per prov, and 100A per prov. Your version of what I asked for would produce only a 0.125 lev-boost per turn even if you had 100W on Lev. I didn't mean that. I want it to be a viable strategy, just not a recipe for winning by sleeping-only. So, since I can't change my parameters, can you change them once again?

Han

[Hannibal]

OK, Kor and Trewqh, I've re-created the game from scratch. So you are now playing the game Duel - start #02. See the map. It looks more equal to me, and I've now practised what to do if a start-map is turned down, so go with this one, at least for the beta-test, OK? I've inputted orders for the 4 robot-players.

Starting anew allowed me to choose parameters, so I've done them, no need to make that change, Kor. Workers give a full 0.005 lev each if on lev, but provs have limits of 100 workers and 100 armies (and 100 missiles, just to tidy it up).

Trewqh, copy-and-paste for the houserules sort of worked .... except it didn't paste the html line breaks, so I had to redo them all over again.

Kor, maybe I missed a set-up box, but the new version has ONLY my houserules, not the box-driven ones such as no headhunting, and what parameters I've changed. My slip, I'm sure (?), so we'll live with only knowing the changed parameters from the above in this post, this time. You must tell me how I can go back and correct things ....

OK, enough setting-up. Let's pretend you both agreed the #02 start-map. Robo-players have put in their orders. GO FOR IT!. When I spot 6 sets of human orders, I'll run the turn. Should be fun!

Han

[Hannibal]

Kor, how do I cancel "Duel #01" and rename "Duel #01 - start #02" as just "Duel #01" ? I know you could do this yourself, but best if you tell me how I do it, for future games, when we may often have to restart if a player says they want the map/ starting-provs re-rolled.

Han

[trewqh]

The linked POP file does not correspond with what my turn reports say

And that probably makes the AOF I sent in useless

trewqh

[Hannibal]

Yes, I had discrepancies myself when I started in the recent Cross Island game .... but only a few Pop here and there, not enough to bother about. But you seem to imply something bigger than that ..... to make your orders useless ......

OK, if it doesn't matter much, let's press on? It's "only a test". But if it's bigger than that, then your opponent Kor is the only one who can help you?!!

Han

[Hannibal]

BTW, we seem to be the only 3 people on the thread at all. Is anyone else watching? Anyone else keen to see how the game pans out? Almost everybody should feel free to chip in a post, to enliven the boards and give us your view or your support. Who's your money on, and why!?

Han

[Hryllantre]

Im reading these posts but atm im just not following them

Give it time gentlemen

trewqh has the slender advantage in that province 29 (trewqhB) follows prov 26 (kor C), trewqhB is OOP 10th and therefore can stifle out kor C's movement and potentially gain cheap land... All other provinces have the potential to avoid the A1's or opponents...

Thats my opinion

[korexus]

Sorry guys, been away from the computer for a few days. Still not really back now so can't fill everything in.

Just to justify myself, Han, you asked for "0.005 Lev produced per turn per 4 workers" hence I set it to 0.00125

You can reset the turn by the method we went through in the chat room, but as you were 'slaughtered' at the time, I guess you don't remember.

I will try to put together an idiot proof email of everything I think you need to know to run this game, then you can tell me the bits which I've missed...

Chris.