NAP BREAKING IN SUBURBIA - The Sequel: Affair?

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NAP BREAKING IN SUBURBIA - The Sequel: Affair?

Post by trewqh » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:57 pm

I know that unintentional violations of naps happen. I also once made a mistake of forgetting to change my orders after negotiations reached their end which resulted in spying on my freshly acquired ally on the first turn of the NAP. However the detrimented player believed me that it was a mistake and that I had no interest in spying him and thanks to that the matter wasn't revealed to anyone else. It was the beginning phase of the game and I didn't plan to fight that player at all. Actually I wasn't even given a chance to do that. :roll:

BUT (going back to Suburbia)

How do you all think I should treat this case?
1. I know that I have a NAP with Warped Angel which surly does not allow spying eachother earlier than on turn 15. I am also sure that, unless he forgot, Warped Angel KNEW that turn 14 should be safe.
2. A little quote form my latest TR. (25 is mine 37 is Warped Angel's)
<< Your Province # 25 is under a Spy Attack !! >>
You have a 48 % chance to detect the Source.
You located it ! The Spies came from Province # 37
1 Spies are used in a secret Operation !
The Spies failed in their Attack !
Your Effectiveness Level gains 4 %
Since I was grateful to the player I did harm to that he did not let anyone know about my case, I would like to explain why I am posting this here:
1. All the remaining players and the GM know that I am going for 2 VPs and WA spies on me one turn before our nap officially ends. As opposed to me spying out in the beginning phase of the game and of the nap in the case discussed at the beginning of this post.
2. Such a situation occured in this very group!!! Vide 2 previous threads concernign Al's 17.
3. Last (and surly least) I can't contact WA through e-mail

I will also ask a different question:
How should I react if Warped Angel says plainly that it was a mistake and he forgot about our NAP?

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Post by Warped Angel » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:22 pm

..
Last edited by Warped Angel on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Warped Angel » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:28 pm

..
Last edited by Warped Angel on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Duke » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:49 am

Kids, play nice now. Ever seen me and Egbert go at it? Solve this in a relaxed and respectful manner.


....who am I kidding? OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! *crowd cheers*
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Post by trewqh » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:12 am

Warped Angel wrote:trewq, I waited and waited for a reply from YOU on our nap. I had one with your clanmate Donut and was trying to secure one with you but I never got a reply so dont tell me WE had a nap. Please for future reference if YOU have a misunderstandind with me please bring it to my attention privatly before you go shooting your mouth off for the entire community to see. The fact that this is said on the boards whether it is true or not hurts me in future games and tarnishes my image. If you have something to say to me my email is readily available. Thank you... thank you very much.
1. As I already wrote, your e-mail is not available to me (just as any other @mich1.net address). I get bounce backs.
2. I did send a confirmation. I can't remember if I got a bounce back then and I can't check that while I delete those. It's true that I considered that single confimation I sent out as bounding and didn't expect a confiramtion to my confirmation.
3. How can you say that you had a nap with Donut and you didn't have one with me since one of your conditions was that it was to concern both of us? All this happened after my computer crash so I have a copy of this correspondence.

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Post by Undertaker » Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:41 am

trewqh wrote:
Warped Angel wrote:trewq, I waited and waited for a reply from YOU on our nap. I had one with your clanmate Donut and was trying to secure one with you but I never got a reply so dont tell me WE had a nap. Please for future reference if YOU have a misunderstandind with me please bring it to my attention privatly before you go shooting your mouth off for the entire community to see. The fact that this is said on the boards whether it is true or not hurts me in future games and tarnishes my image. If you have something to say to me my email is readily available. Thank you... thank you very much.
1. As I already wrote, your e-mail is not available to me (just as any other @mich1.net address). I get bounce backs.
2. I did send a confirmation. I can't remember if I got a bounce back then and I can't check that while I delete those. It's true that I considered that single confimation I sent out as bounding and didn't expect a confiramtion to my confirmation.
3. How can you say that you had a nap with Donut and you didn't have one with me since one of your conditions was that it was to concern both of us? All this happened after my computer crash so I have a copy of this correspondence.

trewqh
I doesn't mean crap if WA had a NAP with Donut and your name was included, if you two didn't have any correspodence then there's no NAP between you. You even said it may have bounced back, well you should have found another way to contact him.(like PM him through this board)

PS, Trewqh, I have gotten emails from you before at my mich1.net addy.
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Post by trewqh » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:58 pm

Undertaker wrote:I doesn't mean crap if WA had a NAP with Donut and your name was included, if you two didn't have any correspodence then there's no NAP between you. You even said it may have bounced back, well you should have found another way to contact him.(like PM him through this board)
I don't agree with you. Please try to understand my point of view. On my part there was enough correspondence:
- Donut and WA discussing conditions
- Donut asking me what we should do and me suggesting we should go for the conditions that WA suggested
- Donut sending confirmation and me also sending confirmation.

It seems to me that since, from WA's point of view, he didn't get a confirmation from me and it was crucial for the nap to be established then he should try to contact me or Donut about it. I think that since he didn't contact me and I knew that I did send a confirmation then I had every right to assume that the NAP is in place with the conditions discussed.
Undertaker wrote:PS, Trewqh, I have gotten emails from you before at my mich1.net addy.
But you know that e-mails going through happened on a random basis. It was very annoying to me as I suppose it was to you when you were in my game.

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Post by Warped Angel » Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:01 pm

..
Last edited by Warped Angel on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by trewqh » Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:11 pm

Warped Angel wrote:Sounds like a bunch of bs to me trewq, The emails that I have with donut regarding naps said donut was in but since donut cant speak for you. you where supposed to contact me letting me know this included you...... NEVER HAPPENED no email from Trewq saying yes Im included etc etc. There are ways of getting ahold of me other than my email Trewq. look at the bottom of the boards theres a little thing called PM. I am about done with this BS. I want an apology for smearing my name Trewq.
Yes, Donut did say that he won't dedice for me and that he will consult me about this. This is what he did. There were no changes of the conditions mentioned. In your e-mail in which you urged a reply you repeated that you wanted the NAP with both of us.

How come didn't YOU contact me?

I hope we will finish this arguement.

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Post by Warped Angel » Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:26 pm

..
Last edited by Warped Angel on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Donut » Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:32 pm

When I e-mailed Warped, I explained that Trewqh had agreed to our terms and would be sending a confirmation. From my playin with Trewqh I have to believe that he immediatly attempted to send a confirmation. He is VERY prompt on most Diplomatic situations.

That's all I can really add to this fight...

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Post by Warped Angel » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:07 pm

...
Last edited by Warped Angel on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by trewqh » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:24 pm

Well, we did have a chat with Warped Angel.

We agree that it was a misunderstanding and I want to stress that to show that I had no intention of calling Warped Angel a nap breaker since the matter hasn't been discussed yet when I first posted here.

But there is still a difference between us. WA refuses to accept that the words that he used when he offered a NAP did not express what he meant.

I regret that WA's last post here looks as it does. How can we reach an agreement in such a case?

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Post by ThinKing » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:59 pm

trewqh wrote:How can we reach an agreement in such a case?

trewqh

Quit the game, quit the game!


:lol:

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Post by Underdog » Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:00 am

OK I tried earlier and wrote a LONG commentary on this subject but it didn't get through because I was kicked off as it was uploading.
To make a long story short:

I am getting tired of reading the boards and seeing people complaining about NAP-BREAKING. I remember when I started playing this game the boards were for banter(good natured for the most part) and spied info. I could almost see my position in some games from the board, Who needs a Turn Report.

Now if players continue to refuse to use DIPLOMACY to settle disputes instead of going to the boards then we are going to have serious problems with recruiting new players. Who wants to play a game with a bunch of CRY BABIES?
I have just heard from Calidus and he expressed the same feeling to me about the WHINING on the boards. I know, I Know. "Who gives a poop about you old timers, this is serious." BS. This is a GAME and sometimes I think you people take this WAY too serious. STOP, TAKE DEEP BREATH, Find a way to work this stuff out privately. I am getting tired of all this whining. I suspect I am not the only person that feels this way.

Kermit/RevAmp, You were around before me I don't recall you behaving this way in the past. Maybe you just didn't play as much and didn't run into it for that reason but we have all had desputes with NAPs in our games. Whining on the boards is not an answer it is a problem. FIND a way to communicate privately before bringing this to the boards. if you can't communicate with your fellow players how can you get a NAP in the first place?

I read the boards for enjoyment but haven't found much enjoyment in reading the propaganda dispersed lately. Piebald was known as a NAP-Breaker. I never had him break a NAP with me and we played a few games together. I wonder why that is. maybe because I kept in touch with him during our games? maybe diplomacy is more than 2 or 3 e-mails between players before turn 1 is ran then nothing for 6 turns and people start to argue because someone spied on a province they weren't supposed to. sorry I can't take that seriously. If you people can't find something better to do than argue about stupid things I feel sorry for you.

Now everyone shake hands and get over it.
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Post by Duke » Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:00 am

First of all LOL@ Thin Kings post :thumbsup:

Second of all I would like to back Underdog here. I dont know if he made up the phrase or if it is an actual quote but to say "Who gives a poop about you old timers, this is serious" is sort of like a thing Egbert quoted once that goes "This all used to be real estate, now there is nothing but woods and fields" or something similar.

The oldtimers ARE wok. Make no mistake there. Newcomers may change the direction of the game and improve it but the cannot change its core.

I can understand an occasional thread like this. I didnt read this one well enough to determine if it was in place here so I want judge but it is surley getting out of hand and not once can you see one of the older member starting it off. It isnt an age thing either since some of the "older" members arent that old really.

Anyway......to finish this off in a wierd way. Like I told Funtastic, if you shake it more then twice....you are playing with it. Remember that folks.
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Post by Polymorphic » Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:23 am

Thin_King wrote:
trewqh wrote:How can we reach an agreement in such a case?

trewqh

Quit the game, quit the game!


:lol:

TK
Oh please...

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Post by Saladin » Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:04 am

Boy you really are getting desperate for those vps. :P

Tell you what...if you and Raw fight it out in Eg's 02 than i'll split the vps with whomever wins. :)

If not, i'll just have to trash you both. :P
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Post by ThinKing » Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:56 am

Sounds like fun! (and an easy VP for me) :lol:


But can we trust you? :roll:



TK

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Post by Saladin » Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:49 pm

Hehe...look who's talking. :wink:
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