GM ALs Group#17 - Suburbia

All about the online version of classic WOK games.

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Post by Mac » Wed Jul 23, 2003 7:19 pm

Polymorphic wrote:
trewqh wrote: Yeah! :twisted: Bring it on! Anyone want some?............*looks around seeing noone to pick up the chellange*
That's what I thought. :twisted: trewqh
Who wants to help me kill Trewqh?

...any takers?
I think you have enough on your plate son :P

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Post by Polymorphic » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:18 pm

Bring it on!

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Post by korexus » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:11 am

OK, Anyone that wants trewqh's details. Just drop me a line.

trewqh, it's time to drop this. People may have attacked me instead of you. You may have even helped convince them to do that. Hey with 3 VPs to your 0 I do look like the bigger target. But with all this bragging, (about not a lot) all you do is draw attention to yourself, not a good plan if you want to survive all that long.

Have a good game all :twisted:


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Post by trewqh » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:36 am

OK let's deal with that seriously and get back to blowing my own trumpet later :)
korexus wrote:OK, Anyone that wants trewqh's details. Just drop me a line.
I don't think you have details about my diplomatic status, korexus. If you're so sure about what you know about my situation in the game then come on and predict what will happen next. You still have 9 hours before this turn runs. You can also predict the next turns. Please do it, I am really curious if your predictions will be better than mine.
korexus wrote:trewqh, it's time to drop this. People may have attacked me instead of you. You may have even helped convince them to do that.
I'm not sure what you mean korexus. In this group I took you out by myself. My diplomatic status after turn 1 still wasn't stable although I knew I would be able to take you out. I don't know who you made naps with but it was your mistake not to make one with me. (I'm not saying I would agree but just that we didn't contact eachother about one.) I didn't convince Griffon to anything by turn 2 or 3. He admitted, that on turn 1 he wanted to hit the provinces I would take earlier but I tricked both you and him with my move. Xero approached me with a nap proposal first (I also assume that he offered the same one to you) saying he had no problem with me fighting you,so it wasn't me...

korexus wrote:Hey with 3 VPs to your 0 I do look like the bigger target. But with all this bragging, (about not a lot) all you do is draw attention to yourself, not a good plan if you want to survive all that long.
korexus.
Thanks for that friendly tip korexus :D I am doing well and I think I know what I am doing. My posts here aren't to condemn anyone here. They are plain fun. I hope no one feels bad about my posts.

Also, let me rely on my e-mail diplomacy more than on the impressions I make on the boards to predict how long I will survive :)

Thanks for your interest anyhow,
trewqh

PS And the VPs are a different subject. Ugh, if it wasn't for Raw... :P
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Post by korexus » Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:04 pm

My point was mainly regarding Griffon. He decided it was better for him to help you (by not scooping up your undefended missile workers) than to help me (by doing so). He has since emailed me saying that if he were to make the choice again he would have gone with my plan.

I do find it slightly amusing though, that when Griffon makes a desicion in your favour it is all down to your diplomacy but when Raw makes one in mine it's his fault...

Regardless, if Xero does have to drop out of this game you might stand a chance. I was just offering you the friendly advice that bragging about a win on turn 3 is a good way to convince people to attack you. :)


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Post by trewqh » Sun Jul 27, 2003 8:27 am

korexus wrote:My point was mainly regarding Griffon. He decided it was better for him to help you (by not scooping up your undefended missile workers) than to help me (by doing so). He has since emailed me saying that if he were to make the choice again he would have gone with my plan.
Did he say why? I think I might say why he told you so...
korexus wrote:I do find it slightly amusing though, that when Griffon makes a desicion in your favour it is all down to your diplomacy but when Raw makes one in mine it's his fault...

korexus.
I see a difference here. I don't do diplomacy with my clanmates! I cooperate/plan/share my thoughts with my clanmates as opposed to negotiating with my rivals. So I think your comparison was inadequate.

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Post by korexus » Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:35 pm

Well, actually Raw told me that you weren't telling him anything about your plans, which was why he NAPed with me in the first place.

I wasn't going to bring up old history, but as you insist. You really should have beaten me in that game anyway. I had already been attacked by two other players and for a very long time I had no way of attacking you due to my NAP with Raw . If it wasn't for the fact that you played like a complete muppet, repeatedly putting your armies in the one province I could bomb and attacking provinces which you knew were empty you could have won the 1 on 1 easily. I can't say I blame Raw for sharing the game with me, you didn't really deserve any VPS there...


For anyone that cares, the game in question was Taker's missilemania.



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Post by gm_al » Sun Jul 27, 2003 8:49 pm

Aaahhh.... I can smell a new rivalry shaping up here !

About time that old Nick vs TK feude gets a successor ! :P

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Post by Mac » Sun Jul 27, 2003 9:42 pm

gm_al wrote:Aaahhh.... I can smell a new rivalry shaping up here !

About time that old Nick vs TK feude gets a successor ! :P
Both feuds are as bitchy and pathetic as the other :P

I would also like to congratulate myself on taking one gamble too far and thus making a cock up.

Note to all, wanting to see what a game is like without diplomacy is a horrible idea...but at least I had a bit of fun, hell, I'm sure Al was shaking his head after seeing the results of the last couple of turns ;)

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Post by gm_al » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:50 pm

Trewqh has asked for a delay until midnight.

Because I probably dont want to run the turn at 1 AM I have extended the deadline until tomorrow evening (CET time)

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Post by trewqh » Mon Jul 28, 2003 2:26 pm

korexus wrote:Well, actually Raw told me that you weren't telling him anything about your plans,
Beside the fact that it is not true...
korexus wrote:which was why he NAPed with me in the first place.
... what, in your reasoning, would that prove? How does that connect to what I said about the difference between cooperating with clanmates and negotiating with rivals?
korexus wrote: I wasn't going to bring up old history, but as you insist.
I admit that I mentioned Raw in one of my post scriptums but I nowhere said anything about Misslemania. I was talking about relations with other players in a game. I don't know how you got the impression that I wanted to talk about Misslemania.
korexus wrote: You really should have beaten me in that game anyway. I had already been attacked by two other players and for a very long time I had no way of attacking you due to my NAP with Raw . If it wasn't for the fact that you played like a complete muppet, repeatedly putting your armies in the one province I could bomb and attacking provinces which you knew were empty you could have won the 1 on 1 easily. I can't say I blame Raw for sharing the game with me, you didn't really deserve any VPS there...

For anyone that cares, the game in question was Taker's missilemania.

korexus.
Farnkly, I can't remember if what you're saying about my game play in that game is true. But, for heaven sakes, how is that adequate to our discussion about diplomacy and my boasting about Al's 17?! :?

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Post by korexus » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:56 pm

trewqh wrote:
korexus wrote: Well, actually Raw told me that you weren't telling him anything about your plans,
Beside the fact that it is not true...
I can only go on what your clan mate told me. And besides that, maybe *my* diplomacy had something to do with the NAP. Which was my original point
trewqh wrote:
korexus wrote: which was why he NAPed with me in the first place.
... what, in your reasoning, would that prove? How does that connect to what I said about the difference between cooperating with clanmates and negotiating with rivals?
Read above. When I was negotiating with him he *was* my rival. Just like you and Griffon et al in Suburbia.
trewqh wrote:
korexus wrote: I wasn't going to bring up old history, but as you insist.
I admit that I mentioned Raw in one of my post scriptums but I nowhere said anything about Misslemania. I was talking about relations with other players in a game. I don't know how you got the impression that I wanted to talk about Misslemania.
trewqh wrote: PS Our debts after Misslemania are now setteled I guess. :D
I dunno, maybe because you brought it up? :lol:
trewqh wrote:
korexus wrote:
You really should have beaten me in that game anyway. I had already been attacked by two other players and for a very long time I had no way of attacking you due to my NAP with Raw . If it wasn't for the fact that you played like a complete muppet, repeatedly putting your armies in the one province I could bomb and attacking provinces which you knew were empty you could have won the 1 on 1 easily. I can't say I blame Raw for sharing the game with me, you didn't really deserve any VPS there...
Farnkly, I can't remember if what you're saying about my game play in that game is true. But, for heaven sakes, how is that adequate to our discussion about diplomacy and my boasting about Al's 17?!
It is true, not that it really matters. I mainly brought it up as a comparison of our diplomacy and an example of the two of us fighting 1 on 1 instead of 2 on 1 to your advantage. We could ask the forumites if they think it's relavant but I imagine they stopped reading a long time back! :P


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Post by Polymorphic » Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:02 pm

Oh, we still read... :flamer: :popcorn:

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Post by Strider » Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:14 am

We want a cage match!! Dance for us! DANCE!!!


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Post by trewqh » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:40 am

korexus wrote:I can only go on what your clan mate told me.
OK, I understand. No problem.
korexus wrote:And besides that, maybe *my* diplomacy had something to do with the NAP. Which was my original point + I do find it slightly amusing though, that when Griffon makes a desicion in your favour it is all down to your diplomacy but when Raw makes one in mine it's his fault...
This finally makes sense to me. You're right I never thought of that. I falsely assumed that since Raw was my clanmate then he shouldn't negotiate terms that would somehow make the game harder for me. And that's how I think (thought?) it was Raw's fault. In Al's it was either my or your diplomacy with Griffon but in Misslemania it was only Raw's choice between your diplomacy and aligence (sp?) to me because, as I said earlier, I didn't do 'diplomacy' with him (this DOESN'T MEAN that I haven't exchanged e-mails with him about the game)

How about that?

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Post by trewqh » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:55 am

I have just seen the geoup's page.

Al, I did send in my orders. I used the text AOF as always. I did that short after you resent me the TR (this means a couple of hours before the unextended deadline). I didn't expect to get the TR that fast and to find time to do my orders before 20.00 (I guess) that's why I asked for a delay.

The only proof I have is a copy of the orders in a text file (not an e-mail)(this file has to have info when it was created) and the other thing is my post on the Gen. disc. forum. I knew that I wouldn't be able to send in orders for Nick's game and that's why I told him to run it without me BUT I was sure that you have my orders for your group and that's why I wrote nothing about your group.

I really would like a rerun.

Please, use the forum or the board's PM to answer me,
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Post by gm_al » Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:20 am

Trewqh, I checked all the mails prior to running the Turn. Twice.

I couldnt find any orders from you. The last mail I got was from 28/07 asking for the delay. Nothing else.

Because you didnt use the AOF sender I do not have any proof that you sent in any orders (although I believe you). I even sent a warning that I would run the Turn and that I would need your orders asap (by that time I saw you had just posted on the boards, so I emailed you).

By any fair meanings I will not do a re-run. Its not because I have something against you or dont believe you, but just according to the facts as I have them: no orders received from you - no re-run. A simple text file you have somewhere is not a proof, sorry.

I have seen so many weird things happening with mails (attachs dissapearing etc.) that I always ask players to use the AOF senders. I might even make this mandatory with my next Groups. If you prefer to use the text AOF and send mails by other means then I am not responsible for their delivery.

You could have asked for a confirmation if I got your orders, this would have been good it seems. Ill do that from now on for non-AOF sent orders.

And dont feel too bad about it - all your neighbors were sleeping or missing Turns too, you didnt really lose anything (except some movement orders maybe). Im sure your well-known diplomatic skillz can make that up. :P

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Post by trewqh » Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:31 am

OK. I understand. I have no hard feelings.

I just thought I'd try.

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Post by korexus » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:48 am

trewqh wrote: This finally makes sense to me. You're right I never thought of that. I falsely assumed that since Raw was my clanmate then he shouldn't negotiate terms that would somehow make the game harder for me. And that's how I think (thought?) it was Raw's fault. In Al's it was either my or your diplomacy with Griffon but in Misslemania it was only Raw's choice between your diplomacy and aligence (sp?) to me because, as I said earlier, I didn't do 'diplomacy' with him (this DOESN'T MEAN that I haven't exchanged e-mails with him about the game)

How about that?

trewqh

I'm not saying that Raw didn't make the choice, but I'd like to think that at least had to convince him not to attack me. Basically We signed a NAP early on and then I had to spend time on messenger virtually every turn making sure he didn't send cancelation for the NAP. Now Raw obviously had a part to play there but couldn't there be just the tinyest bit of good diplomacy on my part too? :wink:

Oh and, contrary to popular opinion. Raw joining the scholars during the game wasn't the only factor in this. Raw's been in the habit of giving me VPs since I started playing (much to TK's annoyance!) *fond memories of Pat's 5*
(I know you didn't bring up the clan switch thing, but you were probably thinking it! :P )


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Post by trewqh » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:56 am

korexus wrote: I'm not saying that Raw didn't make the choice, but I'd like to think that at least had to convince him not to attack me. Basically We signed a NAP early on and then I had to spend time on messenger virtually every turn making sure he didn't send cancelation for the NAP. Now Raw obviously had a part to play there but couldn't there be just the tinyest bit of good diplomacy on my part too? :wink:
Yes, I can agree that your diplomacy was a factor that convinced Raw not to attack you. My point is that your diplomacy SHOULDN'T have been a factor in a case where I was Raw's clanmate. And this concerns Raw's choice, not your will to convince him to anything.
korexus wrote: Oh and, contrary to popular opinion. Raw joining the scholars during the game wasn't the only factor in this. Raw's been in the habit of giving me VPs since I started playing (much to TK's annoyance!) *fond memories of Pat's 5*
(I know you didn't bring up the clan switch thing, but you were probably thinking it! :P )
korexus
I didn't bring it up, I didn't expect you to bring this up, I don't want to talk about this so I won't comment that. :P

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