GM Ryan's Group 03

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Funtastick
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GM Ryan's Group 03

Post by Funtastick » Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:19 am

Greetings all,

I come to you today in the hopes of earning a rerun in Ryan's Group03. It has been stated that I missed the turn and went M-1, but this is far from the truth.

I will begin by listing my information:

At 7:20, my outlook express mailbox recieves the copy of my AOF orders.
At 7:30, my outlook express mailbox recieves my turn report for Ryan's Group03, but it seems to be missing the orders I sent in.

For this next part, it is important for you to remember I am not disputing the fact that my orders were sent in AFTER the turn was scheduled to run.

My orders were late for one reason and one reason alone: I was not able to access Raw's game page. Not only this, but I could not access any 0catch website, including Taker's that just ran or even my own, much less the homepage for 0catch.

Here is a copy of the comment I sent with my AOF:

"Comment_ = Your page seems to be down so I can't do phase 7....please enter in info for me. I aleady have all the info but the province to spy on....please enter numbers to spy on all of" Player's "provinces...if there are less than 5, do the one with the lowest province # again, thanks."

By putting that in the comment, I informed Raw that I was not able to access his page. Can a GM really expect their player to submit orders if they are not able to view the page? Mind you, I tried accessing this on multiple computers.

Although other players say they were able to access these pages just fine, no individual from my area, Appleton, Wisconsin, was able to support this claim - Just because you can access a site from one place, doesn't mean the server is up and running for all locations.

Some other players have tried to say that this could all just be some sort of elaborate plan I made up to escape out of being late for the turn. If this were true, why would I put that comment in my AOF's if there was no indication whatsoever that the turn had been run/was being run at that moment?

Again, I do not dispute the fact that my orders were sent in after the turn was scheduled to run, but I had not recieved a turn report, nor was I able to access the page. If you have any thoughts to this, please respond.

~Funtastick

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Post by Polymorphic » Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:12 am

Just for the record, I couldn't accesss any 0catch sites either.

But i sent in my AOF for your game - I looked st the map available on Map Central.

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Post by Lord Fredo » Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:45 am

I personally, both as a GM and a player, hate for games to be decided due to circumstances outside of the game so I would hope that there could be some kind of compensation be it a rerun or some manual input on his behalf of Funtastick from the GM.

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Post by Dameon » Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:53 pm

First of all, this sort of thing is the exact reason I encourage my players not to wait until the last few hours before a deadline is due. You never know what may go wrong that could prevent you from sending in orders. 0-catch in particular seems to be craptastic lately too, as Roland points out, while I used it for a while I dumped it in favor of Angelfire again after enough problems like this.

In this case, what you should have done is send Ryan an email IMMEDIATELY upon discovering you could not access 0-catch and see the map. Presumably, that would hopefully be a reasonable amount of time before the turn was due. Ryan could then send you a copy of the map, and you could get your orders in. Or, Ryan could have granted a delay until 0-catch was back up. I don't know if you did either of those things, but you don't seem to mention it.

But from Ryan's point of view, I am going to run the turn, after the deadline, and I have orders from every player except one. That one player hasn't sent me anything to indicate he will be sending in orders or the like, and I am unaware of any problems with 0-catch because nobody has said anything. Sure, I'd run the turn. Should he rerun it? I'd say that's a GMs perogative to decide whether or not he wants to.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

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Raw
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Post by Raw » Sat Apr 19, 2003 3:16 pm

Now this was a suprise to wake up to on Saturday morning because I thought I had made it clear to Funty that the turn was not going to be rerun, but here goes again.

I will NOT be rerunning the turn or adjusting your player data.

1 - The turn was due at 6 CST.
2 - I ran the turn way before you sent in the AOF.
3 - I did commentary and updated the site before I sent out the TR's.
4 - I sent out the TR's as I received your AOF.
5 - There are 3 days (72 Hours) between turns to do your AOF.

That's all I can think of now, I havn't had my wheaties yet!

All players who have played in my games know, I usually run the turn right at the deadline or shortly after.

Cheers,
GM Ryan / Raw
It's not fast unless its got a fart can.

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Post by Funtastick » Sat Apr 19, 2003 4:45 pm

But also, it makes me wonder if you have a history of this kind of situation occuring before, or of sending in turn orders late consistantly. There must be some reason why those "some other players" thought that this was an elaborate scheme on your part to avoid missing the turn. What could that be?
Baron, you had me as a GM and I don't think I once missed a turn, and only once did I send in orders close to the due time, I usually get my orders in very quickly.
But from Ryan's point of view, I am going to run the turn, after the deadline, and I have orders from every player except one. That one player hasn't sent me anything to indicate he will be sending in orders or the like, and I am unaware of any problems with 0-catch because nobody has said anything. Sure, I'd run the turn. Should he rerun it? I'd say that's a GMs perogative to decide whether or not he wants to.
Well, OK, he runs the turn, then, he recieves orders from me stating his page is down. Why should it matter when he is informed? Is it going to change the fact that his page has been down? I've already had at least one player back up my story about 0catch being down at that time, is he lying too?
In this case, what you should have done is send Ryan an email IMMEDIATELY upon discovering you could not access 0-catch and see the map. Presumably, that would hopefully be a reasonable amount of time before the turn was due. Ryan could then send you a copy of the map, and you could get your orders in. Or, Ryan could have granted a delay until 0-catch was back up. I don't know if you did either of those things, but you don't seem to mention it.
You're right in this respect, I should have sent him an e-mail about it, but, I didn't, that can't be changed now.
1 - The turn was due at 6 CST.
2 - I ran the turn way before you sent in the AOF.
3 - I did commentary and updated the site before I sent out the TR's.
4 - I sent out the TR's as I received your AOF.
5 - There are 3 days (72 Hours) between turns to do your AOF.
So the turn was due at 6CST...I sent in my orders at 7:20 as clearly marked on my outlook express inbox. I didn't recieve my turn report until 10 minutes after I had sent in my orders, hardly takes 10 minutes to send out 7 turn reports. 3 days is probably one of the least I have seen going around at this time. Not saying I mind it, but I have been stressed for time lately with school, especially as my 7 page research paper is due on Tuesday the day I get back from school.

I remember you saying something about how it wouldn't matter anyway had you used my orders or not? What exactly is that supposed to mean? You can decide when orders are important or not?

Plain and simple, the GM's page was down, which has even been varified from another player to support my claim. How can a GM expect his players to send in orders if their page is down? Should it matter when he is informed that his page is down - Will it change the fact that the page was down?

~Funtastick

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Post by Ecrivian » Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:31 pm

Funtastick wrote: So the turn was due at 6CST...I sent in my orders at 7:20 as clearly marked on my outlook express inbox. I didn't recieve my turn report until 10 minutes after I had sent in my orders, hardly takes 10 minutes to send out 7 turn reports. 3 days is probably one of the least I have seen going around at this time. Not saying I mind it, but I have been stressed for time lately with school, especially as my 7 page research paper is due on Tuesday the day I get back from school.
~Funtastick
Funtastick,
No offense here but the part that I bolded, not valid. School comes before WOK am I right community? Plus if you want to get nitty gritty about junk, I missed my last two turns in Fredo's Treasure Island **I apologize to all players and the GM, publicly* on account of a 40 min group presentation that I had to do as well as a 20 page paper. Now, you don't hear me pissing and moaning to Fredo about how he "unjustly" ran the turn (no offense Fredo). If something like a measily 7 page research paper should arise, then I suggest you ask for an extension, I think that most GM's would agree that in this case a day or two extension would be granted. Andy, I mean for crimeny's sake, you're a what Junior in High school already! 7 pages isn't that bad... especially when you get to freshman at UNI where you've got 5 pagers due every other week!

Sorry but these are my views and I think that most GM's/CH's here would agree with me, aslo i think that our friends at Oxford would agree with me regarding the paper thingy.

Ec
War determines not who is right, but who is left. We shall see in the days ahead whom of you appear atop the pile of corpses.

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Post by Funtastick » Sat Apr 19, 2003 7:12 pm

Just to let you know now Ec, I'm not trying to stress this whole reason of being busy. I never asked for an extension, that's not really the main point of this argument.
Be very careful here Funtastick, you are treading on the borderline of accusing GM Ryan of misconduct. The way I read this, you are saying that he deliberately ignored your turn orders, eventhough they were an hour and twenty minutes late
Perhaps I am doing just that. His page was down, what can he expect me to do. He ignored my orders anyway even after telling him the page was down...what's the difference from then and now?

I'm sick of arguing when noone even believes ones thing I say. Please just put this to a WSC vote or something.

Can Ryan punish me for something I have no control over?

~Funtastick

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Post by Dameon » Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:11 pm

Chill out Funtastick. If you weren't trying to send in your orders at the last minute, this wouldn't even be an issue. Yeah his page was down, but you still shouldn't have been sending in orders late to begin with, or so close the deadline. If you don't like three day turnarounds, don't play in any more of Ryan's games. Roland summed it up perfectly:

"It can' t be made any clearer than that you should have sent an e-mail to Ryan, within a reasonable time before the turn was due, stating that you could not access the game page and that you needed extra time or a copy of the map."

And yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the turn was run before he got your orders. I for one have always colored the map, uploaded the files, and then updated the page before sending out reports, and that can take up to 20 minutes. There is nothing for the WSC to vote on. Unless, of course, you are accusing Ryan of lying here?
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

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Post by Funtastick » Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:30 pm

Chill out Funtastick. If you weren't trying to send in your orders at the last minute, this wouldn't even be an issue. Yeah his page was down, but you still shouldn't have been sending in orders late to begin with, or so close the deadline. If you don't like three day turnarounds, don't play in any more of Ryan's games. Roland summed it up perfectly:
Where exactly does it say I shouldn't be sending in orders so close to the deadline?
There is nothing for the WSC to vote on. Unless, of course, you are accusing Ryan of lying here?
Exactly what do you mean by that?
"It can' t be made any clearer than that you should have sent an e-mail to Ryan, within a reasonable time before the turn was due, stating that you could not access the game page and that you needed extra time or a copy of the map."
So if I come on at 5:50 to do my orders that are due at 6:00 and the page is down, then what happens to reasonable time? It's now my duty to inform the GM that things are wrong? Even if, I did that, and he didn't do anything about it.

Like I said, I don't wish to discuss this any further...please have the WSC take a vote on what should come of this turn.

~Funtastick

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Post by Raw » Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:53 am

I love seeing my name mentioned so many times.

Also, sorry...but it takes me about 30-40 minutes to do commentary and update the map, as I watch a little TV and have an nice cold beer as I do it.

I hope people don't think I was wrong in this matter, I am just playing by my rules.

Cheers,
Ryan
It's not fast unless its got a fart can.

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Post by Ecrivian » Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:55 am

Roland! are you saying that I'm unreasonable? I don't think I'm unreasonable... do you think I'm unreasonable Mr. Hat?
**ecrivian continues carrying on conversation with Mr. Hat, a hand puppet**
War determines not who is right, but who is left. We shall see in the days ahead whom of you appear atop the pile of corpses.

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Post by Dameon » Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:04 am

Well, there is a simple solution here. Funtastick, the WSC rules state that any matter may be brought before the WSC as long as two members of the WSC back it up. Find two members to back you up on your call for a vote, and it will be referred to the GM Committee for review. Although, as a member of that committee, I can tell you the outlook for you would not be a favorable one.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

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Raw
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Post by Raw » Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:32 am

So....should I hold off on running turn 4 that is due tomorrow?

BTW - Funty, thanks for getting your AOF in early :wink:

Cheers,
Ryan
It's not fast unless its got a fart can.

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Post by ThinKing » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:56 am

Well I'm going down to Oxford in the morning... so perhaps an extra day would be a help in some ways.


However I dont think there really is an issue here.


TK

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Post by Dameon » Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:02 pm

No Ryan do not delay the running of the turn. Funtastick needs to find WSC members to support his request for the GM Committee to review this, and barring that, the game must go on. The GM Committee will contact you if this goes any farther, but frankly, I doubt it will.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

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