Erm ... Takers Missilemania

All about the online version of classic WOK games.

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Duke
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Post by Duke » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:52 pm

This is usually Oxford people that does this but since none of them have I guess I have to post the hard facts:

Rank Language Primary
1 Mandarin 836,000,000
2 Hindi/Urdu 333,000,000
3 Spanish 332,000,000
4 English 322,000,000
5 Bengali 189,000,000
6 Arabic 186,000,000
7 Portuguese 170,000,000
8 Russian 170,000,000
9 Japanese 125,000,000
10 German 98,000,000
11 French 72,000,000
12 Swedish The important people
Comrie, 1998
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Post by Brykovian » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:04 pm

Dameon wrote:It's well known that Americans don't speak English, we speak American. Ironically, if you consider the international language of business, it's also American much more than English (except in random places like India and Australia where the Brits got kicked out by the natives). I think we should just recognize the inevitable and officially change the name of the language, or at the very least classify it is separate, no? 8)
Dameon wrote:I personally view it the other way around, English is a dialect of the American language. A heck of a lot more people speak the "American" dialect than the "English" one, no? :lol:
Dameon wrote:It's all relative I suppose; basically we're arguing semantics here as what we are looking at is simply dialects of the same language. What the language should be called is pretty irrelevent overall in the grand scheme of things.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from "The Princess Bride" ... when the man in black (Westley) is having a duel-of-minds with Vizzini, and Vizzini delivers an argument almost as cyclical as Dameon's on this thread ...
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
;) :D

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Matt Worden Games ... Gem Raider, DareBase, Castle Danger, Keeps & Moats Chess

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Post by trewqh » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:55 pm

Duke wrote:This is usually Oxford people that does this but since none of them have I guess I have to post the hard facts:

Rank Language Primary
1 Mandarin 836,000,000
2 Hindi/Urdu 333,000,000
3 Spanish 332,000,000
4 English 322,000,000
5 Bengali 189,000,000
6 Arabic 186,000,000
7 Portuguese170,000,000
8 Russian 170,000,000
9 Japanese 125,000,000
10 German 98,000,000
11 French 72,000,000
12 Swedish The important people
Comrie, 1998
Rather irrelevant, but nobody's perfect, Duke :)

On the other hand, if you could dig up numbers that show where people, speaking english as their primary language, come from, the discussion would benefit greatly.

trewqh

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Post by Underdog » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:19 pm

Has anyone ever seen "My Fair Lady"..........

"Why can't the English learn to speak."
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Post by Underdog » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:30 pm

Brykovian wrote: This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from "The Princess Bride" ... when the man in black (Westley) is having a duel-of-minds with Vizzini, and Vizzini delivers an argument almost as cyclical as Dameon's on this thread ...
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
;) :D

-Bryk
It would be better if you had put the whole argument in here.

"Iocane comes from Australia which as everyone knows is populated by criminals so clearly I cannot choose the glass in from of me. But you would have counted on me knowing that so clearly I cannot choose the glass in front of you."

Or something like that.

The important part is that Australia is populated by criminals. therefore we can all clearly not trust the players from there. but they of course would count on us knowing that so clearly we should give them the opportunity to make up for their criminal past and they would be the most trustworthy players in the game so clearly we should trust them implicitly.
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Post by Duke » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:14 am

Underdog wrote:Has anyone ever seen "My Fair Lady"..........

"Why can't the English learn to speak."
*whispers to UD*

I would keep any referrals to musicals to a minimum if I were you :wink:
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Post by Duke » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:31 am

Well then Trewqh. Brace yourself 'cos here are more facts.

Image

Now, clearly this settles that discussion. If it is anything other then English, it is American.

English is the primary language in Australia (Australian English), the Bahamas, Barbados (Caribbean English), Bermuda, Dominica, Gibraltar, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica (Jamaican English), New Zealand (New Zealand English), Antigua, St. Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, the United Kingdom (British English) and the United States of America (American English).

English is also one of the primary languages of Belize (with Spanish), Canada (with French), India (with Hindi and 21 other state languages), Ireland (with Irish), Singapore (with Malay, Mandarin, Tamil and other Asian languages) and South Africa (along with Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans, and Northern Sotho).

HOWEVER, American English is NOT the official language of the United States of America.

An official language is something that is given a unique status in the countries, states, and other territories. It is typically the language used in a nation's legislative bodies, though the law in many nations requires that government documents be produced in other languages as well.

In some countries, such as Iraq, Italy, Russia and Spain, there is an official language for the country, but other languages are co-official in some important regions. Some countries, such as Australia, Sweden, Tuvalu, and the United States have no official languages.

So, my fellow Americans and criminals from the continent below. We have no language. At least no official one. Due to this I have to say that American English is disquala....desq...discq...eeeh not eligable to win this little "competition" and I announce English as it is spoke in the Empire as the winner!!!
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Post by trewqh » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:09 am

Good boy there, Dukie! :lol:

Some very interesting info. I was quite sure that most people in India speak English as their primary languauge, but, apparently, I was wrong.

But looking at this matter from the historical point of view.... :wink:

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Post by Saladin » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:25 am

Also don't forget that anybody who speaks English as a secondary language was taught proper English and not American English. :P
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Post by trewqh » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:34 am

Saladin wrote:Also don't forget that anybody who speaks English as a secondary language was taught proper English and not American English. :P
Actually, that's a very european-centric point of view :)

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Post by korexus » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:46 am

Duke wrote:This is usually Oxford people that does this but since none of them have I guess I have to post the hard facts:
We're staying right out of this one...


Although I would like to point out that if we changed the name of a language every time some counry which spoke it got more members than the others, life would get a bit confusing.
Warped Angel wrote: my compliments to who ever it would be that has done this wok online thing it seems pretty slick.
Thanks, still going though, once Josh stops pestering me...

Saladin wrote: Also don't forget that anybody who speaks English as a secondary language was taught proper English and not American English
Unfortunately this may not be the case. I'll let Duke find the numbers but a worryingly large number of people with English as a second language have the annoying accent and poor spelling which is a sure sign of dumbing down in the world's teaching department... :(
Duke wrote: ...
United Kingdom (British English)
Or as we like to call it, 'English'
Duke wrote: ...
Ireland (with Irish)
Or as they like to call it, 'Gaelic' (Someone has to stick up for the Emerald Isle while Ben & co are away.)

korexus wrote: We're staying right out of this one...
Yup. I'm really glad I'm staying out of this one! :P
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Post by Aussie Gaz » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:28 pm

Duke

You missed a few minor places I'm sure.

The islands to Australia's north (Papua New Guinea) have English (the UK version) as an official language. (approximately 4,000,000 people)

They also speak a Pidgin English (which takes some getting used to) as well as 700 or so different native languages.

There are also quite a few American missionaries trying to bugger up the whole system.

:D

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Post by Duke » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:57 pm

I didnt miss anything. Or to use HipHop English grammar: I didnt miss nothin.

I stole that fact from the net and cant really say that I take any responsability for the accuracy of it.

About what learing English as a secondary language.

Our teacher from 7-9th grade would flip out if we pronounced or spelled any word in any other way then, like he called it, Queens English.

Our teacher from the equivelence of 10-12th grade (even though it is named different here) had a more liberal point of view. He said that as long as we were consitent and didnt switch from writing drive-thru at the beginning of a line and colour at the end, then he didnt have a problem with it. When someone did that mistake he usually wrote with a red pen in the margin "Choose a language and stick with it please".
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Post by Dameon » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:02 pm

Saladin wrote:Also don't forget that anybody who speaks English as a secondary language was taught proper English and not American English. :P
I'd certainly like to see where you got the statistics on that, because I don't believe it. Mostly when you talk about the differences between American English and British English it's vocabulary, as far as I'm aware the grammatical rules are the same. Spelling might be different too in a few instances, but it's largely a homogenous language.

Interestingly enough, though, I've rarely spoken with an ESL speaker with a British accent....they almost exclusively have a more American one. Granted I do have a skewed perspective, but I've met plenty of people that were educated in other countries (at my current school I deal with many students that learned English in Mexico or parts of Asia) and they come to the country with a more American accent and spelling than English.

I think Duke's chart really helps prove my point. No, English isn't the official language of America, but only because choosing an official language really goes against the entire melting pot idea. We embrace all cultures, or at most of us try to. Nonetheless, we have to have a standard language so we can all communicate, and that's primarily American English, although we have a larger Spanish-speaking population that a lot of small countries too. I know my arguments may sound contridictory, but the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter what the language is called; the thrust of my argument is that the fact that English is often considered the international language is through the efforts of Americans, not the Brits.
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Post by Warped Angel » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:14 pm

you guys sound like a bunch of.........aw never mind.
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Post by trewqh » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:41 pm

Dameon wrote:[...]the thrust of my argument is that the fact that English is often considered the international language is through the efforts of Americans, not the Brits.
You're right to some extent. On the other hand, I suppose the British Empire also made a nice effort towards that or at least gave a good base for the present US :) But, all in all, I think it is impossible to measure who had bigger influence, so let's leave it at that, won't we?

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Post by Xechortariaste » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:46 pm

Duke wrote:In some countries, such as Iraq, Italy, Russia and Spain, there is an official language for the country, but other languages are co-official in some important regions. Some countries, such as Australia, Sweden, Tuvalu, and the United States have no official languages.
At the federal level we don't have an official language, but most states do have English as the official language, most recently West Virginia.

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Post by Dameon » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:33 am

trewqh wrote:
Dameon wrote:[...]the thrust of my argument is that the fact that English is often considered the international language is through the efforts of Americans, not the Brits.
You're right to some extent. On the other hand, I suppose the British Empire also made a nice effort towards that or at least gave a good base for the present US :) But, all in all, I think it is impossible to measure who had bigger influence, so let's leave it at that, won't we?

trewqh
Yeah, but America was once part of the British Empire after all, at least, the original 13 colonies were. Of course the Brits were part of the Roman empire once, and before that there were any number of Germanic tribes....the list is endless. Really, it's best to measure the world on the way it is now, not the way it has been in the past. 8)
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Post by Duke » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:52 am

Dameon wrote:Yeah, but America was once part of the British Empire after all, at least, the original 13 colonies were. Of course the Brits were part of the Roman empire once, and before that there were any number of Germanic tribes....the list is endless. Really, it's best to measure the world on the way it is now, not the way it has been in the past. 8)
If you ask me you all (and that includes you Dameon) should be hanged for treason against the British Crown. :wink:
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Post by trewqh » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:02 am

Dameon wrote:Yeah, but America was once part of the British Empire after all, at least, the original 13 colonies were. Of course the Brits were part of the Roman empire once, and before that there were any number of Germanic tribes....the list is endless.
The list is endless and totally irrelevant since none of these facts (yes, including the one about America) directly influenced spreading English worldwide.

Dameon wrote:Really, it's best to measure the world on the way it is now, not the way it has been in the past. 8)
What do you mean? Because this is either meaningless or you blame America for everything that is happening in the world; good, bad or neither.

trewqh

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