player ratings
Moderators: Duke, trewqh, korexus, Egbert
- Dameon
- Moderator
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse
Just to make it crystal clear, TFF is a clan I would never join. I had thoughts of doing so at one point, before renaming AS to VO, but wanted to give my own clan one last go. It's a good thing I did too, because we have been highly successful as of late, and with the influx of new members I plan on sticking with VO for a while and helping us towards our destiny.
If VO were ever to fold one day (and I can't see that happening in the forseeable future), I still wouldn't join TFF, for as far as I am concerned you guys totally abandoned your principals when you allowed TK to join. I personally witnessed him break an alliance with Allister and backstab him in a game, and the fact that TFF still accepted him as a member shows me that they value VPs over honr. That's not saying I don't like Taker, Mylantis, Allister, etc, or that I wouldn't work with them (obviously not the case, see Guatemala), but I couldn't be part of a clan that accepted what TK has done.
Now, on the other hand, if I ever were looking for another clan, I understand the Scholars are always looking for a few good men!
If VO were ever to fold one day (and I can't see that happening in the forseeable future), I still wouldn't join TFF, for as far as I am concerned you guys totally abandoned your principals when you allowed TK to join. I personally witnessed him break an alliance with Allister and backstab him in a game, and the fact that TFF still accepted him as a member shows me that they value VPs over honr. That's not saying I don't like Taker, Mylantis, Allister, etc, or that I wouldn't work with them (obviously not the case, see Guatemala), but I couldn't be part of a clan that accepted what TK has done.
Now, on the other hand, if I ever were looking for another clan, I understand the Scholars are always looking for a few good men!
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."
- Duke
- Moderator
- Posts: 1699
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Sweden, Valn Ohtar
I stabbed Massie in the back when I played in the champs and you took me in. Oh right, I forgot to tell you about it. Maybe this is why I get along with TK.
Arent you glad you brought it up Blinky?I was checking out player ratings and noticed something strange.
You get less rating when you play wok4, but the ratings of wok4 and wok5 are added up. So this means that someone who plays a lot of wok4 has less chance of being on top than someone who plays wok5. I don't think that is right. Thoughts anyone?
- Allister Fiend
- Commander
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family
Now that's not a nice thing to say about us now is itDameon wrote:Just to make it crystal clear, TFF is a clan I would never join.
More like you were begging to join us.Dameon wrote:I had thoughts of doing so at one point....
BAM! The door just got slammed in your face Avon lady!
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......
- Warped Angel
- Recruit
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: Birch Run Michigan U.S.A.
- Allister Fiend
- Commander
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family
Last edited by Allister Fiend on Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......
- Allister Fiend
- Commander
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Where you see smoke.....:-) The First Family
- Blinky
- Recruit
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:00 am
- Location: Scotland
- Contact:
- Duke
- Moderator
- Posts: 1699
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Sweden, Valn Ohtar
That is usually not a problem if you know what topic to pick. Here are some hints:
US vs. The rest of the world
WOK4 is based on luck
TK vs. X-wing and some situation waaaay ago
Nick vs. ....well anyone really
TR, BOT and "Something rotten"
9/11 and whether the US brought it upon themselves
.....and these are just off the top of my head.
US vs. The rest of the world
WOK4 is based on luck
TK vs. X-wing and some situation waaaay ago
Nick vs. ....well anyone really
TR, BOT and "Something rotten"
9/11 and whether the US brought it upon themselves
.....and these are just off the top of my head.
- Dameon
- Moderator
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse
WHAT? Are you trying to say I am argumentative or something Duke? I don't know what you're talking about, you Swedish weirdo! Who lives in Sweden anyway, it's a frigid wasteland from what I hear! And I am one of the calmest and most laid back people you will ever meet, you hear me! You better watch your back punk!Duke wrote: Nick vs. ....well anyone really
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."
- Blinky
- Recruit
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:00 am
- Location: Scotland
- Contact:
- Hannibal
- Commander
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: London and The Vulkings Clan.............(started in Valn Ohtar, then jointly founded The Vulkings)
Hi! I'm back....
First off, on the thread topic, even as a preferrer of WOK4, I'm happy that WOK5 wins more VP's........because it takes at least 50% more time and effort to play WOK5 than WOK4. So it's fair enough just on that basis, IMHO.
As opposed to the view that WOK5 is all about skill and WOK4 mostly about luck.......This (and other threads about luck/RIP's/ratings/skill) seems to overlook what seems to be the biggest "luck" factor in either game........Which is whether your opponent or neighbour goes M-1, or M-3.
Someone going M-1, or M-3, invariably favours some players over others in a really major way. Surely far more than head-of-a-pin discussioins over who gets RIP bonuses as a matter of luck. And this probably applies to the same proportion of WOK5 games as WOK4 ones.....Discuss?
And while we're at it, you could factor in who you're up against near you. Large slices of luck. Both of these are tempered by the skill/judgement factor of JUDGING who is most likely to miss turns, or go a quick M-3, or play badly, but I'd be surprised if anyone argued against the single biggest luck element, in the majority of games, being M-1/M-3 among those near you or within exploitation of your enemies but not you.......Discuss? And is this more or less true of WOK5 versus WOK4?
First off, on the thread topic, even as a preferrer of WOK4, I'm happy that WOK5 wins more VP's........because it takes at least 50% more time and effort to play WOK5 than WOK4. So it's fair enough just on that basis, IMHO.
As opposed to the view that WOK5 is all about skill and WOK4 mostly about luck.......This (and other threads about luck/RIP's/ratings/skill) seems to overlook what seems to be the biggest "luck" factor in either game........Which is whether your opponent or neighbour goes M-1, or M-3.
Someone going M-1, or M-3, invariably favours some players over others in a really major way. Surely far more than head-of-a-pin discussioins over who gets RIP bonuses as a matter of luck. And this probably applies to the same proportion of WOK5 games as WOK4 ones.....Discuss?
And while we're at it, you could factor in who you're up against near you. Large slices of luck. Both of these are tempered by the skill/judgement factor of JUDGING who is most likely to miss turns, or go a quick M-3, or play badly, but I'd be surprised if anyone argued against the single biggest luck element, in the majority of games, being M-1/M-3 among those near you or within exploitation of your enemies but not you.......Discuss? And is this more or less true of WOK5 versus WOK4?
There are two ways to write: Short-hand, and Long-Han'ed. ~ Han
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs"......... it's probably just that you're the last person to appreciate the enormity of the catastrophe about to
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs"......... it's probably just that you're the last person to appreciate the enormity of the catastrophe about to
- Dameon
- Moderator
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse
It's true that players going QUIT can have a big effect on a game, but not only for people they are neighbors to. Sometimes diplomacy is very involved, and a player going M-3 can effect a lot of people, not only those near to them on the map. In any case, it frankly doesn't happen all that often in any advanced game (WOK 4 OR 5), I can't remember the last time I've seen more than one player go M-3 in a game. It does happen quite a bit more in beginner games, but that's just the nature of the beast. I would definetely NOT agree with the biggest luck element having anything to do with M-1/M-3; especially if you are a good judge of character. I can't say that in the last year I have ever allied with somebody who has missed a single turn all game, and I have never missed a turn in all my years playing; it's all about how good of a character judge you are.
I will say that starting position can have a big effect on a game, which is one reason I am a fan of the city-start rule in WOK 5, since that tends to even things out a bit. But, even with a crappy starting position you can still win a game with good diplomacy; my starting spot in Mike 4 was pretty bad but I managed to turn it around and win, which surprised even me to be honest. The BIGGEST factor in either WOK game is diplomacy. Those who are good diplomats are going to win the most often, and that is something that luck has nothing to do with.
I will say that starting position can have a big effect on a game, which is one reason I am a fan of the city-start rule in WOK 5, since that tends to even things out a bit. But, even with a crappy starting position you can still win a game with good diplomacy; my starting spot in Mike 4 was pretty bad but I managed to turn it around and win, which surprised even me to be honest. The BIGGEST factor in either WOK game is diplomacy. Those who are good diplomats are going to win the most often, and that is something that luck has nothing to do with.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."
- Donut
- Warlord
- Posts: 1041
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: Brew Town, WI; USA - BoV
- Contact:
I'm scared to revive this topic...
I think it would be wise to implement a "Concede" option in the ratings system. Here are my differences for a conceded player.
A player who concedes would essentially be a player who considers himself defeated but hasn't been ripped. Instead of going M-3 they tell the GM to consider them as sending in blank orders (as Mullog and Validon both did in my Group 2). When they Concede they are considered finished for the game but they don't suffer the -.030 rating change. If in future turns their remaining provinces are taken, they will then be assessed the -.030 change. If their provinces are not taken however, they will be considered to have been eliminated on the turn they conceded for Place purposes (1st - 10th).
I say this because I noticed that Validon and Mullog both gained quite the bonus by being considered finished 2nd because no player finished their remaining provinces. I don't think it's fair to consider a player M-3 because they understand that they will not win. I haven't thought about it at great lengths, just briefly and would like to hear some healthy debate about it.
Donut
I think it would be wise to implement a "Concede" option in the ratings system. Here are my differences for a conceded player.
A player who concedes would essentially be a player who considers himself defeated but hasn't been ripped. Instead of going M-3 they tell the GM to consider them as sending in blank orders (as Mullog and Validon both did in my Group 2). When they Concede they are considered finished for the game but they don't suffer the -.030 rating change. If in future turns their remaining provinces are taken, they will then be assessed the -.030 change. If their provinces are not taken however, they will be considered to have been eliminated on the turn they conceded for Place purposes (1st - 10th).
I say this because I noticed that Validon and Mullog both gained quite the bonus by being considered finished 2nd because no player finished their remaining provinces. I don't think it's fair to consider a player M-3 because they understand that they will not win. I haven't thought about it at great lengths, just briefly and would like to hear some healthy debate about it.
Donut
The scars remind us that the past is real.