OT: Electrical stuff

Post by **Duke** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:06 am

I have done some electrical work on my own in my house. Some of it I dont think I am allowed to accordning to swedish law since I am not a licenced electrician but nevermind that.

The odds are quite good that at least one in WOK are skilled in these things so I have tried to find translations for the swedish terms of things. I apologize if something is wrong but if you know your stuff you should be able to figure out what I am reffering to.

What I want to know is if the connections I will explain below will work or if I will get a nice sum of 220 volts through my body when I am cooking up my sloppy joes on my new stove.

Here it goes:

I had one three-phase outlet with one ground cable and one zero cable in it. I wanted to make two one-phase outlets out of these cables.

I went to my central and re attached one of the phases to the zero plinth (direct translation from swedish, might be wrong) i.e. making it a zero cable.

I then had two phases, two zeros and one ground. I split the ground into two cables and ta da. I now had two of everything and being able to plug the wires into two separate outlets.

I used to have three 16A fuses on the single three-phase outlet. Now I have two one-phase outlets with a 16A fuse on each and one fuse that is disconnected since I stole that phase to make a zero out of.

Yes, they are both connected to the same ground wire but since that wire isnt a "active" wire I cant see the harm. If the ground will be needed due to some incident the fuse will blow either way and I will still have to check and probably switch that cable.

Someone with skills, please help me out here. I am too cheap to call a real electrician and I cant find anything on the net.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:25 am

LOL.

regarding your skills in your ex-office with computer cables I have no doubt that we will have a lot to laugh here.

Just make sure you dont electrocute any family members or the dog....

Post by **Duke** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:13 am

Aaah but you are not suppoused to laugh here. I am for once trying to do something serious.

If I electrecute a dog I will be highly surpriced. Mostly over the fact that a dog got into my house to use the stove. Although I have named one of my cats "vovven" which is swedish for "doggy" or something like that so you never know.

And family members, well if a kid or two bites the dust then I'll have to make new ones. It is still cheaper then paying an electrician to do it.

C'mon now TK. We all know you are some sort of wiz kid. You must know of these things as well. If only Henri was around.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:36 am

Well I was surprised at first to hear that those vikings have already discovered ELECTRICITY...

Now it seems all they need to know is how to handle it.

Bjorn · Post by **Bjorn** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:52 pm

You are either very brave or very foolish. Of all the places to go looking for knowledge of power distribution systems, you have to come to Kaomaris? That is the foolish part.

Not knowing much about the Swedish power system take everything I say here with a grain of salt. I assume your 3 phase plug had 5 connections. One for each of the three phases, one for the neutral/return and one earth ground. It sounds like you took one of the 'hot' wires and moved it to the neutral/return connection at the circuit box. You then 'split' the earth ground to give you six total connections. This should give you two sets of three wires. Technically, this should work.

However, you have some code violations here. This is not unusual in any place with codes, but this could be very dangerous for someone else if you ever sell your abode. In the US the wires are color coded. Black is 'hot', White is 'neutral', Green is the Earth ground. There is also a Red wire that has to do with things like dual switches and ceiling fans, but we won't go there. You are going to have a wire that should be coded as 'hot' that is really neutral. This is not a good thing. How do you know which of those three wires is now neutral? Do you have any idea of the color code for power distribution in Sweden?

Post by **Egbert** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:04 pm

Duke, if you'd like, I can do a Will for you at a discount --- you need to mention who gets your VPs after your demise.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:39 pm

I want his viking helmet ! LOL Eg, that was a gooood one.

Lord Fredo · Post by **Lord Fredo** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:20 pm

Bjorn wrote: You are either very brave or very foolish. Of all the places to go looking for knowledge of power distribution systems, you have to come to Kaomaris?

LOL @ Bjorn

And to Al, hey now! We've got hot and cold running water as well ... so there!

Post by **ThinKing** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:46 pm

Egbert wrote:Duke, if you'd like, I can do a Will for you at a discount --- you need to mention who gets your VPs after your demise.

What about my new clan, erm, "Ratho Nlav"....?

TK

Post by **ThinKing** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:41 pm

Duke wrote:C'mon now TK. We all know you are some sort of wiz kid. You must know of these things as well. If only Henri was around.

The verdict from here: safe but illegal. The colour of the wires tells a lot about the nature of the circuit. Live = Red = Danger.

I have a picture here of how it should look. I wonder if it will upload.

TK

Underdog · Post by **Underdog** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:26 am

Yes Duke what you did is corrct electrically but as Bjorn said when a REAL electrician comes to look at it he will be VERY confused.

I have noticed in TK's picture that it shows Black as the neutral. which is backward from the US. we use white as neutral as stated earlier. also from my experience with 3 phase boxes there is a pattern they use.
each phase has a differnt color associated with it I believe the order goes black, brown, red. That way they can determine which phase is feeding any particular load.

There are ways to kinda-sorta remedy this. the easiest is to go buy some electrical tape of the right color and wrap it around the wire you moved so that people will realize it is supposed to be a neutral wire. Don't know what color they use in Sweeden for neutral, but here in the states they sell that tape in just about as many colors as you can get you computer to display. I know the electricians at work have about 20 different colors of tape on their shelf. and those change sometimes. if black is the color for neutral there then it should be easy to find some to use.

Post by **Duke** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:50 am

First of all, nice to see that everyone wants to be a comedian

Ok, I knew about the color codes. However the house is older then the current color standards in sweden (the present ones were established in late 60ies and the house is from 62) add to that the fact that I dont know the current color codes sooo

Anyway, I used a device I dont even know the swedish name of (I borrowed it from a neighbour) and checked the cables. The earth ground is easy to find without checking and when the power is running you can establish the phases. That leaves me with the neutral/return.

I was about to do like Underdog explained with the tapes but since I didnt know the right colors and since I didnt want to wast valuable "kitchen building time" I simply didnt bother. I guess I'll put up a huge warning sign in the central about the kitchen situation if I ever sell my house (although the odds are better of it burning before I get the chance to sell

)

Anyway, it is all connected and I plugged in some stuff to check it and it worked. My only worry now is if the fuses will hold the things I have designated the outlets for.

There are supposed to be a way to calculate the amount of Ampere (sp?) needed but I cant find that either (isnt internet great?) I guess you could wake TK up in the middle of the night and ask for it and he would blurp it out like it was his own name so pretty please, with suger on top, post that calculation.

Thanks to everyone. Like I said. If you need information, go to the WOK board first.

Post by **Duke** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:00 am

Lord Fredo wrote:
Bjorn wrote: You are either very brave or very foolish. Of all the places to go looking for knowledge of power distribution systems, you have to come to Kaomaris?
LOL @ Bjorn

And to Al, hey now! We've got hot and cold running water as well ... so there!

Just remembered, expect a post later on about the hot and cold water. I want it to be running in my house, not flooding it.

Oh and can you seal the ventilationsystem with wall putty? (Dead serious question since it is already done) The vapors from the kitchen fan wont make it, I dont know, disintegrate? Hey, stop laughing! It made perfect sense when I did it!

/D.

Mr_Piggy · Post by **Mr_Piggy** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:22 am

water AND electricity?
I think it will be a short return

Post by **Donut** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:03 pm

Duke wrote:
Oh and can you seal the ventilationsystem with wall putty? (Dead serious question since it is already done) The vapors from the kitchen fan wont make it, I dont know, disintegrate? Hey, stop laughing! It made perfect sense when I did it!

/D.

Hmmm..... Very interesting technique. I'm beginning to think that your kitchen is going to be more ghetto than my dorm room. Just don't rely on random pieces of wood placed between posts to hold up your lofted bed. Every night I just have to wonder if this is the night...

Anyway, I can't imagine that the fumes from your kitchen fan would eat away at the putty. The only thing that I would be worried about is the putty wearing away due to constant window, and the random bit of food

But, I'm just a college student with way too much time invested in Excel, Word, and for those of you that are unfortunate enought to have heard of it, MATLAB.

Donut

Post by **ThinKing** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:18 pm

Donut wrote:....and for those of you that are unfortunate enought to have heard of it, MATLAB.

Donut

MATLAB!!!

korexus and I know it all too well....

TK

Brykovian · Post by **Brykovian** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:31 pm

Donut wrote:I'm just a college student with way too much time invested in Excel, Word, and for those of you that are unfortunate enought to have heard of it, MATLAB.

Okay ... at first, I was wondering why someone would drive all the way across the great plains to go to school in Milwaukee ... but now I'm thinking: MSoE. UW-Mil seems unlikely.

-Bryk

Post by **ThinKing** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:53 pm

Duke wrote:There are supposed to be a way to calculate the amount of Ampere (sp?) needed but I cant find that either (isnt internet great?) I guess you could wake TK up in the middle of the night and ask for it and he would blurp it out like it was his own name so pretty please, with suger on top, post that calculation.

Do we have to do it ALL for you Duke?

The one you want is P = IV.

P = Power in watts. I = Current in Amps. V = Voltage in, you guessed it, miles.

Now you need to find I, so you want I = P/V.

Well, thats it. Get the wattage of your appliance, and divide it by the voltage in your wires - 220 I think. The result will be the current in the circuit. Your fuse needs to be just a bit bigger than this.

So, if you work out I = 1.3A, then get a fuse for 2A. If you work out I=2A, get a fuse for 3A.... etc

Hope this explains all.

TK (in the wrong job)

Post by **Donut** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:56 am

Brykovian wrote:
Donut wrote:I'm just a college student with way too much time invested in Excel, Word, and for those of you that are unfortunate enought to have heard of it, MATLAB.
Okay ... at first, I was wondering why someone would drive all the way across the great plains to go to school in Milwaukee ... but now I'm thinking: MSoE. UW-Mil seems unlikely.

-Bryk

Hmm..... Someone has done there homework - Good, now can you do some of mine. You are correct; MSOE, Mozzy to most of us, is a really long drive and I spend many all nighters, with the afore mentioned MATLAB, trying to figure out why I am soooooooo far away from home. So far though, it's not too bad, so far.....

Donut

Brykovian · Post by **Brykovian** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:23 am

Donut wrote:You are correct; MSOE

I almost went to school there ... was a finalist for the Presidential scholarship award. The 4-year ride would have sealed the deal for me. Unfortunately, I asked a few too many of the wrong kind of questions during the final interviews ... and then I became a member of the UW system that next fall.

-Bryk