Dis-information (the thread you all expected to come up)

Lowebb · Post by **Lowebb** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:04 am

I would usually be an anti-american-anti-british sort of guy, but I'm going to say I think whats going on has a purpose, along with all the "sadamm is evil and kill his own ppl and so on" I think they are perfectly right attacking him before he has the capabilities to launch a huge attack on us or our allies killing many more than will be killed in this conflict. I believe the current civilian casualty number, coming from the Iraqies is about 100, that precision bombing if you ask me, they have done well.

AnywayIf it gets saddam out, its good in my view, anyone remember Hilters and why WWII got started...inaction.

P.S. Who thinks Saddam is dead or seriously injured????

TBert · Post by **TBert** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:50 pm

You don't drop 2 2,000 lb bombs and 40 cruise missiles on a complex and just miss somebody. If he isn't dead, he's injured, IMO. He hasn't made any references to current events in his speeches, of course, maybe he has no friggin clue what's going on. I wouldn't peek my head out if bombs were flying like they are out there.

Duke, first off... DUKE! Anyway, you sound like you're comparing this war to the first Gulf War, which was won at incredibly light cost. But the US would be pressing it's luck if this war wasn't a tough fight. Less than a hundred coalition dead, fighting Iraqis that are defending their home turf, and we're already forming a ring around Baghdad. I say we're doing pretty dangnabbit good.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:14 pm

TBert ! Duke !

My take is that you aint seen nothing yet. This time the Iraqis prepared for good, they will not surrender en masse. They will start a guerilla warfare and many lifes will be lost on both sides. True the US troops advanced quickly.... maybe too quick. Big cities like Basra werent even captured and already Iraqi troops are infiltrating behind the advancing US forces. If they cant quickly capture Bagdad they risk to get trapped.

And again, I would be careful on what the big US networks report as 'news':
Tarek Aziz shot while trying to flee.
Um-Qasr captured.
Saddam injured/dead.
etc.

I prefer the European news sites, they try to give a more neutral and unbiased picture of the situation (and actually dare to show the pictures of US hostages)

Best joke is that US military has asked Iraq to treat prisoners in accordance with UN resolutions. The same nation that overruled the UN to start the war and also installed the Guantanamo camp tp bypass international laws....

And already Dubya is asking for $75 billion more money. No wonder he hasnt any bucks left for social security or medical care.

And thanks UD for the very good links !

And so good to see that Michael Moore won his Oscar !

Post by **Duke** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:53 pm

Tbert! Al! (why are we doing this?)

Am I the only one who finds Michael Moore a tad "over the top"?

I firmly belive that the answers to all of the problems in the world could be found in an Irish pub.

Tell me again why they are forming a ring around Bagdad? It isnt Helms Deep, ordinary strategic rules does apply, or? IMO the "surrounding" tecnique has seen its best days and we have moved on the the so called "no front" war. They better have a plan attached to this or I wouldnt be surprised if Usama came riding in from Iran on an Ent.

I dont know about you but I am actually getting a bad feeling about that whole operation. Either this will be a potential new Vietnam or those frigging Iraqies has finally gotten to my head.

Maybe I should add that I am not in any way comparing Americans to Orcs. I saw the potential misunderstanding and felt that I needed to edit and add that clarification. Actually, when I think about it I think that Tbert once referred to Ecrivian as being "orcish" but I am not 100% sure

TBert · Post by **TBert** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:28 pm

Well I don't mean to "lay siege to their castle", hurling dead bodies into Baghdad to spread disease. I mean massing forces like they did at the border and bombing the crap out of the republican guard before the bloody end.

Ecrivian certainly is big and scary, but I can't imagine him wielding a hooked rusty sword and gutting innocent people. Well, maybe I can.

Al, I try to ignore what I see on Fox News and rely on CNN.com, just because text in itself is much less biased than a reporter. However, I haven't seen the hostage video yet, and I don't really feel like seeing red today. Our Drill Sergeants were quick to remind us that it could very easily have been Military Intelligence (the branch I'm in) captured and killed like that.

TBert · Post by **TBert** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:32 pm

Oh, and about the Irish Pub. A couple of friends have told me stories about how the easiest way to get a problem off your back is to get really drunk then grab the nearest person (or hatrack resembling person) and pour the whole problem out in one slurred jumble. If only Bush and Hussein could get together in an Irish Pub. If only it was legal for me to go to an Irish Pub.

Ecrivian · Post by **Ecrivian** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:35 pm

TBert wrote: Ecrivian certainly is big and scary, but I can't imagine him wielding a hooked rusty sword and gutting innocent people. Well, maybe I can.

Well, y'know, if someone would give me a sword I'd have a good chance of being intimidating.

Big and scary?

What do the other people who have seen me and know me in real life think? Dom, Butcher, Andy (hehe), Mason? What do y'all think about that?

Ecrivian, sword in hand.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:54 pm

Ecrivian, the pointy end doesn't face you. Try and remember that.

I have travelled quite a bit around the world, and most of the people I've met who have had a beef with the U.S., had a beef with the Government and not Americans themselves so much. I got no real problem with that, it's a very American thing to do anyway

.

There is, however, a tendancy in many places to chide the U.S. to do something about conflicts in the world, even if the U.S. has very little to do with it. That tends to annoy people here at times, because the U.S. seems dangnabbit if they try and do something (like now) or dangnabbit if they don't do anything (Rwanda, Sudan, Kosovo for a time etc.). Many people here have feared for a long time that the U.S. would be turned into a global policeman, where sons and daughters would die on battlefields far away and seemingly relative little significance to the safety of Americans.

I feel that the U.S. has its heart in the right place most times when it comes to "interfering" in the world, we just haven't always gone about it in the correct way. But, whether you like the U.S. or not, the U.S. has attempted to help the world quite a bit. I don't think there was much strategic interest when soldiers were sent to Somalia to help maintain order so that food aid could be distributed, or in Kosovo to stop ethnic cleansing when European governments turned a blind eye to what was going on. And there are still people who get pissed that the U.S. didn't step in to help Rwanda or other places where govenments have oppressed people or worse. No other nation on the globe is put to the test quite like that. What do you do?

I'm not trying to excuse away some of the policies of the U.S. There are some things that have gone on, especially in the Middle East, that I haven't been too happy with. But, I do feel that the U.S. tries harder than a lot of people give them credit for. Besides, I would rather be scorned for trying to do something than sitting on my hands and doing nothing. I think a lot of Americans feel the same way.

And I love Irish pubs.....I finally mety my long lost relatives in County Mayo last year. Irish pubs should be the new HQ for the U.N. It could save the world.

Undertaker · Post by **Undertaker** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:54 am

Strider wrote:I feel that the U.S. has its heart in the right place most times when it comes to "interfering" in the world, we just haven't always gone about it in the correct way.

I'm not trying to excuse away some of the policies of the U.S.

Exactly! Problem is the Bush administration is quite arrogant and like to throw the weight of the Federal gov't around, both here and abroad.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2898.html

Post by **trewqh** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:24 pm

Baron Roland wrote:(...)I can only conclude that the real purpose of(...)

This is sad Roland.

trewqh

PS It was me who underlined 'real' not Baron Roland.

Post by **ThinKing** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:40 pm

Baron Roland wrote:From this, I can only conclude that the real purpose of this thread by the one who started it all, was not a discussion 'disinformation', but instead, to attack the United States on the WOK message board and to invite others who hate the United States to jump in with their two cents worth. To turn the WOK message board into a "hate the U.S. forum."

Oh, come on!

1. It is hard to comment on Iraqi news when we see little or none of it.

2. The "coalition" (*shudder*) have no need to disinform, if they are indeed a good, humanitarian force.

3. The last I heard, troops are 20 miles from Baghdad. Thats not on the doorstep. Walk 20 miles, and you'll realise!

4. Its not cents, its pennies.

I fear I am trying to get blood from a stone.

TK

Post by **korexus** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:03 pm

And while the American troops are supposedly moving through Bagdad "as and when they wish" (quoting some airforce guy I saw on TV today, I forget the name) and there are meant to be parts of Bagdad which have seen heavy fighting and Iraqi surrender. The journalists are having a hard time seeing any of these results.

I heard on the radio today that the British journalists are having a "spot the american" competition. The first one to see a soldier in an american uniform in Bagdad wins a set of tumblers or something. This was started when the report came in about taking the airport.
As of 6 this evening no one had won it...

Note I am not having a go at the US here (well, maybe I am) but I'm not saying the Iraqi government is anywhere near innocent of putting out disinformation. Apparently, for example, one of the reports on Iraqi TV said that the coalition troops had been given orders to kill women and children. The difference is that we hear about the disinformation put out by the Iraqi media through our own news reports. There are far fewer examples about our own stories even when the reports to differ from the apparent facts.

Ok, you can flame me now.

korexus.

TBert · Post by **TBert** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:05 am

I don't know if this whole thread was for American-bashing, but any of y'all (I really need to get out of Texas) that believe anything less than that the Americans have full control of Baghdad Intl, and freedom to pretty much roam alot of Baghdad, need to see some of the pictures that have come out of 2 of the Presidential Palaces, and the interview I saw this morning in front of a Presidential Palace.

US soldiers are the best-trained in the world (I know, I'm decent with an M16 and know how to stay behind cover and all that, and I'm only MI), but they're also the best-led, and they have the best intentions. They're trying their darndest not to hurt anybody that isn't trying to hurt them, and that's difficult when every house could hold an ambush.

Post by **gm_al** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:04 am

Pathetic how BR believes we are all here to bash the US..... seems no matter how often I try to explain the purpose of this thread (DIS-INFORMATION, not bashing anyone) he wont believe it.

The soldiers out there DO THEIR JOB. Its not about them. Its about how BOTH sides try to deviate news and how they manipulate 'embedded' journalists or the international press. Freedom of speech - gimme a break.

The Iraqi (dis)information guy is a clown, his tales from the crypt (aka the Saddam bunkers) are good night stories.

Of course the coalition side (aka the Bush junta) can use more sophisticated methods in trying to convince us that what we see and hear is 'the truth'.

Try to see the pics on TV (especially large US networks) from a different angle (its what they want you to see) - or compare them to what independent journalists provide you. I doubt BR is willing to do that, and I guess my reaction would be similar if 'my guys' were drawn into a war. All Im asking you is to stay open-minded and dont fall into their 'its-a-clean-war' traps.

Post by **ThinKing** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:12 pm

TBert wrote:US soldiers are the best-trained in the world (I know, I'm decent with an M16 and know how to stay behind cover and all that, and I'm only MI), but they're also the best-led, and they have the best intentions.

LOL.

I think we all believe that about our own armies.

Anyway, US soldiers have shot down British helicopters, and today we see they have killed 3 journalists, stay at the "Journalist Hotel" in Baghdad, with tank fire.

The road to hell is....

TK

Post by **Egbert** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:24 pm

France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these
drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by
prostitutes." ---Mark Twain

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one
behind me."
--- General George S. Patton

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your
accordion." ---Norman Schwartzkopf

"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."
---- Marge Simpson

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" ---Jacques Chirac,
President of France

"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is
sitting in Paris sipping coffee."
--- Regis Philbin

"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any
better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit
outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more
stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I
don't know."
--- P.J O'Rourke (1989)

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the
1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the
face for it." ---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and he wears a beret. He is French,
people." --Conan O'Brien

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get
Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans
out of France!" ---Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into
Paris under a German flag." --David Letterman

How many Frenchmen does it take to change a light bulb? One. He holds
the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him.

Next time there's a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France