Noob questions....

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ARBCO
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Noob questions....

Post by ARBCO » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:05 am

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the warm welcomes! I'm involved in my first game....Lava Land...and I have some noob questions, then I think I'll be able to answer any NAP's I may or may not have received. :wink:

I know that new players generally join a clan and get help that way...but I'm hoping you guys will help me regardless. I'm a mercenary at heart. Besides...I feel like I should develop a nemesis or two before picking a clan.

Anyway.....questions:

1. Attacking: If I order 20 armies to attack province X, and I assume I'm going to win, so my next order is for the same 20 armies to attack from province X to province Y in the same turn, what happens if there are less than 20 armies alive in province X?

2. Attacking: Do all of my attack orders occur before the next player in the OoP?

3. Workers: In turn 1, workers can only produce DEF?

4. Population: Can you make orders to transform population based on the speculation that you will capture a province in Phase 2: Attacking? Asked another way...will I have access to the population of provinces I capture earlier THIS turn to transform them, or move them, etc.?

5. Tech Points: At the start of turn 1, we start with 0 tech points?

6. General: I may...or may not...have received a NAP that suggested I not let anyone through my provinces to do harm to the author. How do I prevent....or, for that matter...permit someone to pass through my provinces?

7. Orders: Can you give multiple orders to the same province in the same turn? Ex. Bombing, attack, workers, etc.

Thanks guys!
ARBCO

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Re: Noob questions....

Post by Bjorn » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:40 am

ARBCO wrote:Hey guys,
Thanks again for all the warm welcomes! I'm involved in my first game....Lava Land...and I have some noob questions, then I think I'll be able to answer any NAP's I may or may not have received. :wink:

I know that new players generally join a clan and get help that way...but I'm hoping you guys will help me regardless. I'm a mercenary at heart. Besides...I feel like I should develop a nemesis or two before picking a clan.
Join a clan. Any clan. There is lots of helpful advice available. If you are really a mercenary at heart you will miss some of the real fun aspects of Kaomaris, that of plotting with your fellow clan mates!
ARBCO wrote:1. Attacking: If I order 20 armies to attack province X, and I assume I'm going to win, so my next order is for the same 20 armies to attack from province X to province Y in the same turn, what happens if there are less than 20 armies alive in province X?
The order specifies the maximum number of armies to take. If you only have 10 armies, you will be told that there are only 10 armies to attack with and they all go forward.
ARBCO wrote:2. Attacking: Do all of my attack orders occur before the next player in the OoP?
Yes. The first player in OOP order has ALL his attacks resolved, then the next player has ALL his attacks resolved. The same is true for missile attacks and spy efforts. Each player, in OOP order, has all of his orders for each major section executed before the next player goes.
ARBCO wrote:3. Workers: In turn 1, workers can only produce DEF?
Turn 0 and turn 1, yes. On turn 1 you can reassign them to other tasks, but until then they improve defenses.
ARBCO wrote:4. Population: Can you make orders to transform population based on the speculation that you will capture a province in Phase 2: Attacking?
Absolutely! Most players will make one POP->ARM conversion order in their home province, the first province they attack and the second province they attacked. Some clans might offer different advice.
ARBCO wrote:5. Tech Points: At the start of turn 1, we start with 0 tech points?
Correct. Even if you put workers on TECH on turn 1, you won't gain any TECH until produciton in turn 2.
ARBCO wrote:6. General: I may...or may not...have received a NAP that suggested I not let anyone through my provinces to do harm to the author. How do I prevent....or, for that matter...permit someone to pass through my provinces?
You are in muddy waters there, my friend. The assumption is that if Player A marches through your provinces to attack Player B, you somehow 'allowed' this by moving your POP/ARM/WOK out of the area so he could pass through. This is a tough one to police, and some clans don't even believe in it.
ARBCO wrote:7. Orders: Can you give multiple orders to the same province in the same turn? Ex. Bombing, attack, workers, etc.
If I understand your question, the answer is yes. You can convert some POP->WOK in a province and other POP->ARM in the same province on one turn. You can order some armies to attack from 1 to 2, and others to attack from 1 to 3. Just don't send all your armies from the province into 2 with the first attack. Each order is executed in the order specified, so be careful. If you want to move MIS from A to B to C to D, then number the orders in that sequence.

Good Luck!
"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Post by ARBCO » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:45 am

Thanks Bjorn!

I just need a little clarification on one issue...


ARBCO wrote:
1. Attacking: If I order 20 armies to attack province X, and I assume I'm going to win, so my next order is for the same 20 armies to attack from province X to province Y in the same turn, what happens if there are less than 20 armies alive in province X?


The order specifies the maximum number of armies to take. If you only have 10 armies, you will be told that there are only 10 armies to attack with and they all go forward.
Just making sure I understand. I submit two orders in the same turn...20 armies attack X from W....20 armies attack Y from X. So, if I succeed in capturing X, but only 12 armies survived, the next order will be carried out with 12 armies? It won't become invalid or cancelled because I specified 20?

Thanks again.
ARBCO

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Post by ARBCO » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:49 am

Oh crap...thought of something else.

I'm placing orders in Turn 0, but they will be carried out in the order of the OOP of the next turn?
ARBCO

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Post by Brykovian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:25 am

You have it right on the army attack orders. Think of the army count parameter as being "up to this number". If you have fewer than the number you've given, all armies in the province will be used in the attack.

The OoP given is the one that will be used during the following turn. So, you see the results of "Turn 0", giving orders for Turn 1 ... the OoP shown will be used during the running of Turn 1.

Hope that helps.

-Bryk
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Re: Noob questions....

Post by trewqh » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:02 am

Hi there ARBCO!

One comment from me. :)
Bjorn wrote:
ARBCO wrote:6. General: I may...or may not...have received a NAP that suggested I not let anyone through my provinces to do harm to the author. How do I prevent....or, for that matter...permit someone to pass through my provinces?
You are in muddy waters there, my friend. The assumption is that if Player A marches through your provinces to attack Player B, you somehow 'allowed' this by moving your POP/ARM/WOK out of the area so he could pass through. This is a tough one to police, and some clans don't even believe in it.
Another player can march through your territory only by attacking it. There's no possibility of using a movement order to place your armies in another player's territory.

If a player doesn't want to be attacked by a player who is further away then securing a NAP with that player is defenitely more effective than trying to get your immediate neighbours to agree to a no-letting-through NAP.

Have fun playing WoK!
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Re: Noob questions....

Post by Nemesis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:09 am

Bjorn wrote:
ARBCO wrote:6. General: I may...or may not...have received a NAP that suggested I not let anyone through my provinces to do harm to the author. How do I prevent....or, for that matter...permit someone to pass through my provinces?
You are in muddy waters there, my friend. The assumption is that if Player A marches through your provinces to attack Player B, you somehow 'allowed' this by moving your POP/ARM/WOK out of the area so he could pass through. This is a tough one to police, and some clans don't even believe in it.
My experience of this is that you don't allow someone that you are NAP'ed with through to attack the other person. If you are at war with a player and he goes through you then what can you do?. Definitely a tough one to police though.

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Re: Noob questions....

Post by Hannibal » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:48 pm

ARBCO wrote:Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the warm welcomes! I'm involved in my first game....Lava Land...and I have some noob questions, then I think I'll be able to answer any NAP's I may or may not have received. :wink:

I know that new players generally join a clan and get help that way...but I'm hoping you guys will help me regardless. I'm a mercenary at heart. Besides...I feel like I should develop a nemesis or two before picking a clan.

Anyway.....questions:

1. Attacking: If I order 20 armies to attack province X, and I assume I'm going to win, so my next order is for the same 20 armies to attack from province X to province Y in the same turn, what happens if there are less than 20 armies alive in province X?

2. Attacking: Do all of my attack orders occur before the next player in the OoP?

3. Workers: In turn 1, workers can only produce DEF?

4. Population: Can you make orders to transform population based on the speculation that you will capture a province in Phase 2: Attacking? Asked another way...will I have access to the population of provinces I capture earlier THIS turn to transform them, or move them, etc.?

5. Tech Points: At the start of turn 1, we start with 0 tech points?

6. General: I may...or may not...have received a NAP that suggested I not let anyone through my provinces to do harm to the author. How do I prevent....or, for that matter...permit someone to pass through my provinces?

7. Orders: Can you give multiple orders to the same province in the same turn? Ex. Bombing, attack, workers, etc.

Thanks guys!
Hi Arbco, you sound really enthusiastic and interested, so I'm glad to throw in some answers as well. I have a feeling you are gonna be good at this ...

I think you are RIGHT to start as a mercenary and THEN join a clan later. Same thinking as yours. Discover a nemesis, and allies, in your first game or two, and THEN decide which clan to join, with lots of banter. But DO join a clan eventually, as it helps the spirit of Kaomaris. I wdn't say this to every new player, but you sound like you know what you're doing. Stay merc till you have a preference for which clan. This thread demonstrates that you get advice and help as a new-player-merc, not only if you join a clan. And, I have to be honest, from the opp POV, clans maybe shouldn't have to welcome some noob into their clan without seeing that they at least played a whole first game without going M-3 on Turn 3...

1. To be even clearer to you: Order a high number, and it applies to any lower number. Lots of players use this to make their orders less of a hassle to specify. Eg, on Attacks, it's quite normal not to bother counting how many A you have, or might have after the first battle ... so people write in "999" as the number of attackers; = all who are there. Your difficulty comes if you WANT to leave some behind ....

Move orders are limited to 50 units per order. Lots of players use "50" to say "all possible", no problem, saves them counting. Again, your only problem is if you are trying to move SOME and leave SOME behind ... Tip: if you haven't a clue how many will still be alive, you can use two orders: one orders ALL of them to the next prov, and the second order orders the required number of them back to where you wanted to leave some ... See? :wink: But only if you can spare two move orders out of your limit of 7 move orders.... versus other ways of using them. So it depends on your priorities?

In case it wasn't clear, YES, you can tell a prov to do multiple orders. A prov can attack out with 40 of its Armies in one direction, and then order 2A of the left-behinds to attack in another direction. Or throw 16 missiles at one prov, and also 8 missiles at another. You are never limited to one order per prov on bombing, attacks, transforms, moves or spying. Only on Aims, understandably.

You ask about attacking through ... hehe! ...
As Bjorn says, it's a subtle area impossible to legislate for. Some people think that a NAP automatically means friends and no doing ANYTHING to the disadvantage of the other while the nap lasts. Some people think that a NAP is a treaty-of-convenience until it expires or is renewed, so you can feel free to plot or help the downfall of the other, so long as you don't renege on the terms of your nap. Yet others, mostly noobs out of playing Diplomacy etc., assume that naps will be diplomatic offers and bluffs, not binding, just getting ready for the stab at the right moment ...

This is a big issue for new players to get right to fit into Kaomaris. We are not Diplomacy. We all regard NAPS as 99% inviolate unless you want to go ape. Anything you commit to in a nap SHOULD be stuck to. But that doesn't mean you are friends forever, or even on the same side as, the player you just napped with. After all, you just napped with 3 players; you can't share a win with all 3; and THEY similarly did naps with 2 or more players, so can't share a win with all of them ... The healthiest view is:
1. Anything you agree to in a nap is inviolate; don't renege on a nap or you'll get hell on the site, and no-one will treat you on naps, future games, the way they trust other players. Not "illegal", but not worth it!

2. Don't regard naps as permanent friendships. The other guy might have really friendly naps with 3 other players in the same game, and can only share the win with one of you? Ditto for you. Hey, high fives and friendship forever if two of you DO succeed together in a great game!; but remember that, early on, you are probably napped with more than one other player, and so is the guy you are having that nice e-mail dialogue with ...

3. Net: Break no naps; they are not (in the World of Kaomaris) just bluffs and strategems. Naps are inviolate, not diplomatic half-promises that can be reneged on. If we ALL treat NAPS as inviolate, we all share the same approach and get on better ...

4. But the TERMS of the nap ....? Hmm, they are often vague at the edges; nobody wants to go to the pain of a legal contract covering ALL options in the future ...
So there's always room for complaint and argument afterwards, unfortunately. stick to the two keys: You won't attack, bomb or spy each other's provs; you'll stick to what you say about leaving provinces a,b,c to him and he leaving provinces d,e,f to you .... regard yourselves as likely enemies later - as soon as one of you cancels the nap. And always be clear on length of nap, how much notice required, and hence "no hostilities until at least Turn X".

Hope it helps. Main thing: Enjoy! :D

Han.
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Post by ARBCO » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:39 pm

Thanks for all the info guys!

Why all this talk of honouring NAP’s?? What has Tinker told you guys? Just kidding. I understand the purpose of NAP’s in this game and fully intend to honour them as they are meant to be.

Every time I look at the game screen, I notice something new. I just figured out that I could print a Turn Report for Turn 0. So….turn 0 runs on its own… we become less effective…we produce defense…and we grow. The OOP is determined for Turn 1, and my stats are as stated at the bottom of the report (ex. my new POP and DEF basically). That’s it right?
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Post by korexus » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:58 pm

Yes, there are no orders for turn 0, it runs and the game is set up.

You can see the current state of play from the bottom of your turn report. This is a review of everything you have right now. You can also get a glimpse of what other people have from the game page. - The map will show what provinces everyone owns and the score hints at how strong they are (although not with massive accuracy).

Your DEF will grow again this turn. (Your workers work, before you give them the order to change aim) and your POP will grow too. You'll also get lots of new things from the provinces you are about to conquer. :D

Sounds like you're on your way. Good Luck!


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Post by Aussie Gaz » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Arbco

Correct.

You cannot influence turn 0 at all. What you see at the bottom of the turn report is waht you have to work with on turn 1.

Your effecitiveness should be at 98%, workers on DEF etc

Watch your EFF level. It is key to most aspects of the game.

In the first 1 or 2 turns it shouldn't be an issue unless lots of others spy you. After that you need to think about putting some workers on to EFF or TEC.

The workers on EFF will add a little each turn but TEC points can be accumulated and traded in for a big EFF boost.

Gaz

ps Korexus obviously types faster than me.

pps Welcome to WOK

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Post by Nemesis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:44 pm

ARBCO,

Check out this page

http://www.angelfire.com/in3/wok/Summary/nestalawe.html

This is a game from September 2001. Mine and Nestalawe's first ever game. You can see the whole game from our point of view and see all our turns reports.

http://www.angelfire.com/in3/wok/Summary/nemesis01.txt

That is my Turn 1. You can see how I attacked 3 provinces with the same army group, transform POP to WOK and ARM, change the workers aim in the provinces and finally successfully spy on a nearby province

Hope it helps,

Nemesis

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Post by Brykovian » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:33 pm

Well, ARBCO ... at least you found *the* Nemesis, if not yet *your* Nemesis! ;)

Enjoy the game.

-Bryk
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Post by Nemesis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:29 pm

I'm everyone's Nemesis! :twisted:

I can't believe that the game I linked to is from over 6 years ago.

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Post by Underdog » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:38 am

I am too lazy to remove that game from my site.

Actually I don't know if I can remember how to get into Angelfire anymore.

Glad to see my big brother is back playing.

Good luck ARBCO, I always enjoyed playing WOK just don't have the time anymore.

See Y'all again in another 3 months.
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Underdog is here

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