VOTE #23

Post by **korexus** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:28 pm

Ho hum,

Asside from the fact that this "vote" goes against the rules of the WSC it is supposed to defend..

OPTION 4

Just in case anyone's still taking this seriously.

Chris.

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:57 am

I don't think even Sal is taking this seriously. It's well past the deadline and noone closed the thread, counted the votes and so on.

Looking at other threads, apart from me, there are two players (Egbert and Mullog) who expressed that WSC is not needed at this point, but didn't vote in this thread. So this vote ignores the opinion of about a half of those who expressed an opinion.

Fianlly, sorry Sal, but I don't think you should be the one counting the votes. I just noticed the last time you did it in this thread you gave option 3 5 votes instead of 4 even though Vortan withdraw his vote.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:47 am

Ah Tweeg, grow up please. The deadline ended at 9 pm yesterday evening. I just got out of bed so at least give me some time to eat a sandwich before i tally up the score.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:56 am

A total of 13 players have voted.

Option 1 = 0 votes

Option 2 = 2 votes

Option 3 = 6 votes

Option 4 = 5 votes

So option 3 gets the most votes:

Code: Select all

- Two representatives from every clan including the mercenaries. 

- All active members of the development team. 

- Plus the WSC has the right to nominate other players to join the WSC, which have to be accepted with a 2/3 vote though.

So the next step is for each of the clans (plus the mercenaries) to appoint two representatives for the WSC.

The development team consists if i'm not mistaken of:
Korexus
Mullog
Hannibal
Brykovian
Mullog

So these players will have a spot on the WSC. If i've forgotten somebody on the development team please let me know.

[PS: Can a moderator close this thread please]

Post by **Hannibal** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:29 am

Saladin wrote:
The development team consists if i'm not mistaken of:
Korexus
Mullog
Hannibal
Brykovian
Mullog

So these players will have a spot on the WSC. If i've forgotten somebody on the development team please let me know.

Drat, why does it have to be ME correcting Saladin??

You have Mullog down twice. My mate Mullog himself is such an easygoing guy that he'd insist he have max only one place.

Maybe korexus merits two places. Maybe 10 places. He calls the shots. Good thing.

I think Brykovian might just say his name shouldn't be on that list this year. He's said something like that recently. As a great bloke, and fair commenter, yes, but not part of the development/save team this year.

So there are two big omissions.

Hryllantre. At one point, just before I revisited after a month, it was down to Hryll asking and pressing for a game, and Kor saying soon.Hryll, soon. And then Hryll paid for it to survive anyway. And got behind my initiatives. Hey, if we are only 3, we need a game that two can play and the other can GM! Hence Duel. As a holding op. Hryll desreves a place.

Trewqh. Then trewqh joined in, making us four. He was as supportive and helpful and enthusiastic as ever. With good ideas he inputted. Trewqh was fully part of saving WOK.

Remember, and I don't wish to annoy you, WOK nearly died, despite the WSC.

The guys who saved it were:

Korexus (double points)
Hannibal
Hryllantre
Trewqh
And Mullog deserves a place for what he did before, even though he wasn't here at that time.

Just setting history straight. IF we go for a WSC, this was yoour dev team. IMHO.

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:58 am

I'd add Aussie Gaz to that for coding the online version of Advanced WoK which is currently in the early test phase.

Sal, how do you intend to determine who's an active mercenary? Will you take into account only those who are currently in a game?

How will the mercenary representatives be elected? Every active merc gets to nominate someone and then every merc gets a vote and the two mercs with most votes get the spots?

Will the dev team mandate be for life?

Not trying to annoy anyone, just pointing to matters that I think need taking care of.

Post by **Hannibal** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:27 pm

Trewqh, after an encomium like that, you have to disagree!!?

I'm talking about the foursome that turned WoK round from defunct to reviving. Includes you. Once it was live again, sure, others will deserve just as much credit for moving it forwards (thanks, AG). Trewqh, you were vital at the lowest time, helped turn it from extinction to revival. People should remember that, despite your modesty.

H

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:30 pm

Good points all.

Sorry the second Mullog should read Trewqh.

And of course Aussie Gaz should also be on that list.

My definition of the development team would be the people that are currently working on the development of the wok games (so not in the past hence no GM Al). So that's why i included Brykovian as he's working on WOK:MW. And why i included Hannibal (Duels) and Trewqh (general tester).

The period for ANY member of the WSC is only one year. So next year the clan representatives as well as the development team have to be chosen again.

I have mailed all mercenaries that have played in a game recently or have just joined a game, being:

Celerian
Demandred
Goat herder
Mrfighter
Raw
Saladin
Temujin
Vortan

All these mercenaries will get to nominate two mercenaries. After the deadline has passed we simply tally up the total votes each mercenary has received and the two highest vote counts get chosen. If there's a draw for second/third than we'll do a revote for second place with only those two players.

Cheers.

Wilfred

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Defining the dev team will be a big problem it seems...

And Sal, I'll keep being a 'general pain' if you keep being sloppy:
You need to review the merc list, what about Hryllantre? And that's just off the top of my head.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:43 pm

Hryllantre is not on the Merc list, he's in BoV.

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:49 pm

Busted!

Sorry!

Post by **Hannibal** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:57 pm

Hang about. Look, I'm newly reconciled with the wonderful Saladin. So i really didn't want to re-open hostilities. No way, Jose. But isn't the vote a bit crocked? The vote-options are for 1,2 or 3, but still #4 got second-most votes? So, many voters were voting BEFORE Vortan made #4 an option to vote for. It was catching up. If it had been on the voting form (see first post omitting option #4), the result might have been different. Especially if we had had a period of debate before anyone voting as Sal said.

So, the count is invalid. Quite apart from trewqh pointing out others' views that didn't fit within options #1, #2 or #3, the count is from most people being offered only options 1,2 and 3. Option 4 came in as a late option, after some had already voted. Re-vote! Or let Kor decide!

Han

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:03 pm

Or scrap the whole idea and let's see if anyone except for Sal protests

Post by **korexus** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:25 pm

Hmm, I see flames, I have a barrel of water and a barrel of oil. Which shall I choose?

Let's start from the beginning: Sal said that Option 4 did not count because that would mean dissolving the WSC which could only be done by the WSC.
Doesn't that mean that restructuring the WSC can also only be done by the WSC? Ie we need two current members to propose the idea before we have a vote. Hmm, could be a problem there...

People kept changing their votes, mainly because new ideas kept popping up which made them change their minds. This is good (they were paying attention to the debate) but must have made counting up votes very difficult. It kind of shows the strength of TBert's suggestion.

I think it is telling that several members of the community cared enough to post an opinion elsewhere, but did not vote. I was very close to abstaining myself, as I thought the vote ill conceived, until I realised that my abstention wouldn't make a difference.

I think that if we do re-introduce the WSC, we should also look at what powers it has. Traditionally, it has not had the authority to change any part of the WoK Game engine, just conventions about how players act. The game engine has always been controlled by one person. First Al and then later me. While I (and I'm sure Gaz and Bryk as they start to share the stage) will always take everything the community wants into account, I am not sure that putting a committee in charge is such a great idea anyway...

New players should also know that the reason the WSC stopped is because people started ignoring it. First Valn Otah took VPs from Ar-Sereg against the WSC's wishes (and boy did we have a flamer or two about that!) Then Nick and Al started bickering and sending masses of silly emails to the list, then everyone that was involved just drifted off.

Some oil and some water in there, not coherrant I know, but several points which I feel should be made.

Chris.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:42 pm

Ok, one last time because this is getting old.

The whole idea is to finally get things done again around here instead of just endless discussions and in the end no decision being made or the final decision being made by 1 person however well that one person is doing.

As i wanted to get things going instead of first having another couple of weeks of discussion with no end result i set a vote for two options. It was clear from some of the comments made that people would prefer another option that was a middleground between the first two options, hence option three got added.

Then Trewqh came with his protest and wanted a fourth option added. But the problem in this is that the option doesn't fit in with the question being asked (which form should the WSC take) so i advised to have a separate vote on wether or not the WSC should be disbanded.

Though people seemed to prefer that the 4th option be part of this vote and voted on it.

So then i tallied up the 4 vote options and a decision was made.

Now saying that we should have the vote on option 4 again (even though i suggested that from the start and you guys rejected that) sounds a bit like sour grapes to me now that your option didn't win.

So could we please just continue and try and get something positive done now. Everybody now will be able to join in the discussion and most importantly everybody will be able to have his vote counted.

Post by **korexus** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:45 pm

No, I'm just suggesting that having a discussion before the vote stops this confusion happening. That's all I've been saying all along...

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:51 pm

This is getting old because you keep repeating your strawman arguments without paying any attention to what other people are telling you.

Saladin wrote:The whole idea is to finally get things done again around here

Saying that is either a manipulation or you are losing contact with reality once again.

This is as positive as I can get after reading your posts.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:02 pm

korexus wrote:New players should also know that the reason the WSC stopped is because people started ignoring it.

Now that part simply isn't true. The community slowly died when a large group of players (over time) (temporarily) lost interest in the game. With no community and therefore nobody on the WSC no votes or discussions were held.

But since then the community has made a revival which simply is due to veterans coming back to play the game after a period of being absent and two new families of three joining up. This gives us enough players again to get things going nicely and build on that and it also means we now have enough people again to staff the WSC.

Saladin · Post by **Saladin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:18 pm

korexus wrote:No, I'm just suggesting that having a discussion before the vote stops this confusion happening. That's all I've been saying all along...

That's true. It might have been better to have a fixed period of discussion on what form the WSC should have and come up with a number of options. But i was quite eager to get things rolling again and to be honest i couldn't and still can't imagine anybody being against giving the actual community a vote in how things are done instead of just the lucky few.

How can anybody ever be against a democratic way of making decisions.

Now this vote might not have been the perfect way to come about this, but the end goal is simply to give everybody a feeling that they're part of a community and that they have a say in this community. That is what has always been great about the World of Kaomaris and it would be good if that community feeling was felt again.

TBert · Post by **TBert** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:03 pm

::wakes up after another night of no sleep::

Ahh... oh man... let's see what's on the WOK boards... some more funny jokes... maybe Vortan trying to save the world again...

::logs on, rubs his eyes alot, and reads this thread::

Uhh... oh look... uhm... the baby's crying. Guess I can't get involved!

::runs away::