New scoring method

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korexus
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Post by korexus » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:28 pm

Losing the will to live? Where's your stamina, man? We're only up to page 5!! (Well, 6 if you count this post...)


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Post by Vortan » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:34 pm

The will to live has been buried along with my pride (see poetry corner).

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Post by Brykovian » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:50 pm

Yondallus wrote:However, there is just one flaw in the system I'd like to resolve. There are no points based on the effort you put in the game. For example, take the Austria game that's currently running. Raw has killed 3 players here. But got Ripped by multiple players, thus ending only 4th. However, Brykovian and Smashface did not kill any players and will automatically get more points than he does. I just don't think that's fair.
I know that I'm in the minority with not thinking much for the RIP bonus. But that's style of play, I guess. I don't think "effort you put in the game" is only about killing other players directly ... but making sure you survive while having the vast majority of others dead (by whatever means) before the end-game.

However, I'm starting to understand that this can be a killjoy type approach, because battles are what add the excitement to the game ... so being more directly aggressive seems more appealing to more people.

If you want to reward excitement and feel that more aggressive play makes the game "more fun", then I'd be fine with that. Call it an "aggression bonus" as a means to encourage more aggression in the game. I can play the game in different ways.

However, I don't think it's a more "skillful" or "effort-based" way to play the game.

I'll probably not address this aspect any more ... I'm done getting blustery over being raised as an example of a "non-skillful" or "low effort" way to reach the end game.

I like what's being proposed here so far ... I'd say get-er-done.

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Post by korexus » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm

This is why I also suggested an agression rating. Tracking everything with just one number leads to a jumbled mess which doesn't actually mean anything to anyone...
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Post by Vortan » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:38 pm

what about a multiplier based on rips. ie x 1.25 for 1, x 1.5 for 2 etc it wont impact the score of none winners too highly but will make a degree of difference

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Post by korexus » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:44 pm

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGH!!!!!!!!!


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Post by Vortan » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:16 pm

Well ... err ... I guess thats a NO then ... oops.

Tell you what kor you tell us what you would like and we can all agree to it. Hows that sound?

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Post by Saladin » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:10 pm

Yondallus wrote:Maybe there should be a chance to reward this by having a vote after each game where the 10 players send in their top 3 of who they think did a good job in playing the game(and were possibly unlucky). The top 3 of the resulting vote getting extra points.
Well you have both battle tactical skills and diplomacy skills that are important in this game. These two skills combined make it so a player does well or not in a game. Now diplomacy skills aren't shown on the map so it's very hard to determine how much diplomacy work somebody has put in to a game. Actually i dare say that it is possible to win a game with good diplomacy and bad battle tactics but not the other way around. So by just going by how many rips a player has or if he did a lot of attacking, that wouldn't be fair reflection of the effort and skill a player has put in to a game.

Also i fear if you do it by vote it will most likely turn in to a popularity contest.

Maybe players could then also send in clips of themselves singing Britney Spears songs...i bet Tbert would do great! :D
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Post by Calidus » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:47 am

Let's stick to the KISS principle....(Keep it Simple Sutpid)

Forget all the extra blah blah blahs for now. Let's just go with the simplistic charts that were discussed earlier. As I have said before, in six months, we can re-evaluate the system and see what we do like or don't like. We have a simple system already, but one that just about everyone feels need some elaboration. I think we have a good start, lets roll with it and see where it eventually takes us.
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Post by Vortan » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:53 am

:thumbsup:

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Post by korexus » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:19 am

Vortan, counting a RIP bonus in part of the number is exactly what causes the problem with tracking too much in one number. Given that you don't have to RIP people to win a game, (working with partners who happen to take the last province, using diplomacy to get other people to work for you, etc) RIPs are not a measure of how good a player you are, just how good at one particular aspect of the game.

This is what caused the three 8 page long arguments a few years back...

If you want to track RIPs, I think that could be very useful, but should be a separate statistic, that way people could look at it to see how likely they are to be attacked by you (or at least attacked successfuly...)

Thankyou Cal, for suggesting we keep it simple. How about:

Code: Select all

Solo win 250 
2nd 50 
3rd 30 
4th 20 
5th 10 
6th 5 
7th 3 
8th 2 
9th 1 
10th 0 
 
QUIT players come in 2 turns before the QUIT (ie, the turn they went M-1)

Players in equal place share the points. (So a shared win is (250 + 50)/2 = 150 points each, if three other players are alive, they take the points for 3rd, 4th and 5th, that is (30 + 20 + 10)/3 = 20 points each.

Points halved in event of 5 quits.
I'm also going to do this in the manner I suggested. (ie traking position, not points. So we can actually change a lot of this later on if we don't like the way the numbers are falling out. :P )


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Post by Vortan » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:45 am

Okay ... anything ... just remind me every so often though that if I feel an idea coming on to KEEP IT TO MYSELF.

Seriously though, It certainly sounds more than acceptable and as I think all will agree trialing it will be better than ending up with another 17 pages of this sort of stuff whioch while very helpful *coughcough* can be monotonous (and if that, or anything else is spelt wrong I don't care!)

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Post by TBert » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:04 pm

Saladin wrote:Maybe players could then also send in clips of themselves singing Britney Spears songs...i bet Tbert would do great! :D
My forum sense was tingling when I logged on today... I knew somebody was talking about me!

Not that I have anything constructive to add, of course.
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Post by Brykovian » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:58 pm

I still have those T-BeriTney files ... if anyone thinks it would be a good idea to re-push those to the web ... a steak and a beer makes me quite compliant. :)

-Bryk
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Post by SmashFace » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:10 pm

i miss those vids, POST EM!!
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Post by Brykovian » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:03 pm

Brykovian wrote:a steak and a beer [and perhaps some free tickets to a Brewers game] makes me quite compliant. :)
8)

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Post by korexus » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:18 am

Ok, the first step towards this has been achieved.

Game pages now record the turn on which a player was RIPed (or went M-1 for QUIT players) let me know if you have any formatting suggestions as we now have a lot of info in that table...


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Post by Lardmaster » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:58 am

I've been away so not kept up to date with this (or any) thread. Am I right in saying that the new system still favours players who play more often? So I can win 5 games or lose loads and end up with teh same points. Seems unfair to me but whatever I guess. I;m with Bryk re the rip bonus too. If you can make two people kill each other off and clean up after why should the losers gain?
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Post by Saladin » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:20 am

Will we use the same score system to determine the clan final or use a different setup?
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Post by Calidus » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:49 am

Lardmaster wrote:I've been away so not kept up to date with this (or any) thread. Am I right in saying that the new system still favours players who play more often? So I can win 5 games or lose loads and end up with teh same points. Seems unfair to me but whatever I guess. I;m with Bryk re the rip bonus too. If you can make two people kill each other off and clean up after why should the losers gain?
I think the RIP bonus is dead. Korexus has made the turns show when a player was RIPed in order to rank the players from 1-10 at the end of the game......unless I misunderstood something.
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