RIPed vs. M-3
Moderators: Duke, trewqh, korexus, Egbert
- Calidus
- Commander
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Clan Head, CoN
- Contact:
RIPed vs. M-3
This is actually a situation that we have going on in Southern Reaches, and I thought I would put the people to the test:
If a player is RIPed on the same turn that he/she goes M-3, which rule takes precidence? Does the player going M-3 weigh more than the RIP, or vice versa? Let the arguments begin!
If a player is RIPed on the same turn that he/she goes M-3, which rule takes precidence? Does the player going M-3 weigh more than the RIP, or vice versa? Let the arguments begin!
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.
- SmashFace
- Moderator
- Posts: 565
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Appleton Wisconsin U.S.A.
- Contact:
- korexus
- Moderator
- Posts: 2829
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: Reading
- Contact:
Can't possibly depend on the OOP. You don't go M-3 in the attacking phase!
Personally, I've always run it as people go M-3 at the end of a turn, thus giving players every opportunity to gain the RIP. This was very much a GM decision, but it may have been formalised in the ratings discussions, should anyone want to look it up...
korexus.
Personally, I've always run it as people go M-3 at the end of a turn, thus giving players every opportunity to gain the RIP. This was very much a GM decision, but it may have been formalised in the ratings discussions, should anyone want to look it up...
korexus.
With Great Power comes Great Irritability
- Calidus
- Commander
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Clan Head, CoN
- Contact:
I felt that the any player being RIPPED on the same turn that they go M-3 should be considered as RIPed as opposed to QUIT. I was fairly certain that Donut was going to quit once I took all of his corn away from him two turns ago. If he had other reasons, than I apologize for make a false assumption, but I did cripple his economy in Southern Reaches. Otherwise, he and I were actually about on even turns. I just happened to be ready before he was ready to pounce. I did not want this game to end with him going M-3. We already had two empty slots at the beginning of this game, and had to settle for being down with 2 players as having QUIT. One more, and this game can only have one weinner.....I mean winner.
Thanks fellows, you all are on the same views as I am, and to the others that read the post but didn't put in their 2 cents, thanks for NOTHING!
Thanks fellows, you all are on the same views as I am, and to the others that read the post but didn't put in their 2 cents, thanks for NOTHING!
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.
- Saladin
- Moderator
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Haha...but only my opinion counts in this game! What a power trip!
Though since i agree with you guys the power trip doesn't seem to satisfy as much as it usually does, hmm...
Though since i agree with you guys the power trip doesn't seem to satisfy as much as it usually does, hmm...
"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity."
"To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves."
"To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves."
- Lardmaster
- Commander
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: The Big Smoke
- Lardmaster
- Commander
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: The Big Smoke
- Aussie Gaz
- Moderator
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Thursday Island, Australia. Clan : Valn Ohtar
I also agree that the RIP takes precedence.
I am almost 100% sure that that was the agreed way of treating things for the ratings side of things also.
There usually is plenty of time to rip someone and in my opinion it is a perfectly valid option to go M-3 to possibly deny someone some VP's.
Hence me going M-3 in Southern Reachs .
Gaz
I am almost 100% sure that that was the agreed way of treating things for the ratings side of things also.
There usually is plenty of time to rip someone and in my opinion it is a perfectly valid option to go M-3 to possibly deny someone some VP's.
Hence me going M-3 in Southern Reachs .
Gaz
- Vortan
- Commander
- Posts: 588
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: Valn Ohtar, English Office
- Contact:
AG Dont you think that is unsportsman like. If your opponents have earned the victory they should get the points. Someone choosing to go M3 to avoid this is, in my opinion, being unreasonable at best.
I haven't survived long enough for this to be a problem but I know it would hack me off immensely if it were done to me. Shouldn't the 2 be made the same equivalent. M3 = RIP in terms of VP allocation.
This would stop players going M3 simply as a spoiler. It is after all only a game and deliberatly going m3 is on a par with throwing the monopoly board on the floor cos u r loosing.
I haven't survived long enough for this to be a problem but I know it would hack me off immensely if it were done to me. Shouldn't the 2 be made the same equivalent. M3 = RIP in terms of VP allocation.
This would stop players going M3 simply as a spoiler. It is after all only a game and deliberatly going m3 is on a par with throwing the monopoly board on the floor cos u r loosing.
- Saladin
- Moderator
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Well 5(!) people have to go QUIT before it has any effect. Actually i think it only happend 3-4 times in all the hundreds of games that have been played so it's not really an issue.
"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity."
"To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves."
"To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves."
- korexus
- Moderator
- Posts: 2829
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: Reading
- Contact:
We had a poll on this a while back...
Vortan, your analogy is good, but not quite there. Going M-3 is like walking away because you can't win, counting M-3s as RIPs would be more like giving the strongest player all your money and property first.
The reasoning behind the rule is that a 5 player game is considerably easier to win than a 10 player game, so if several players simply give up the VP allowance is dropped. This all makes sense but introduces the twist that people can go M-3 to deprive other players of VPs. This isn't actually a common occurance and you do get 3 turns to finish them off, so personally I don't think it's too bad.
korexus.
Vortan, your analogy is good, but not quite there. Going M-3 is like walking away because you can't win, counting M-3s as RIPs would be more like giving the strongest player all your money and property first.
The reasoning behind the rule is that a 5 player game is considerably easier to win than a 10 player game, so if several players simply give up the VP allowance is dropped. This all makes sense but introduces the twist that people can go M-3 to deprive other players of VPs. This isn't actually a common occurance and you do get 3 turns to finish them off, so personally I don't think it's too bad.
korexus.
With Great Power comes Great Irritability
- Calidus
- Commander
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Clan Head, CoN
- Contact:
I guess I will have to consider adding a new clause to my NAP arrangements. "in the event that you go M-2, the NAP will be null and void"
I do not agree with the prospect of going M-3 as a tactic. There are times when real life will cause a player to go M-3, and I can understand the need to take care of real life business first, but I do not agree with a player dropping out because his butt got kicked. I quite handily got whipped in the Austria game that is running, and effectively have been out of the running for anything other than a speed bump for the last several turns, but I still keep sending in orders. Even though they are just zero orders. I got beat fair and square, but I am not about to just drop out because of it.
If you are going to drop out and go M-3 as a tactic when you get beat, I would rather you not join the game to begin with. At least then, someone else who may want to fight to the end will have the opportunity to join in your place. (dangnabbit, naow I am starting to sound like Dameon)
I do not agree with the prospect of going M-3 as a tactic. There are times when real life will cause a player to go M-3, and I can understand the need to take care of real life business first, but I do not agree with a player dropping out because his butt got kicked. I quite handily got whipped in the Austria game that is running, and effectively have been out of the running for anything other than a speed bump for the last several turns, but I still keep sending in orders. Even though they are just zero orders. I got beat fair and square, but I am not about to just drop out because of it.
If you are going to drop out and go M-3 as a tactic when you get beat, I would rather you not join the game to begin with. At least then, someone else who may want to fight to the end will have the opportunity to join in your place. (dangnabbit, naow I am starting to sound like Dameon)
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.
- korexus
- Moderator
- Posts: 2829
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: Reading
- Contact:
It's a question though, of which is worse. To allow the tactic of going M-3 occasionally or to give out easy VPs occasionally. Remember that 5 people have to go M-3 to reduce the VPs, so it's not going to be a very good strategy very often. If we're going to kep M-3 for players who can't make turns, then we will get this option occasionally. It would just be too hard to judge when a player is deliberately missing turns to sabotage the game...
korexus.
korexus.
With Great Power comes Great Irritability
- Brykovian
- Moderator
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
- Location: Minneapolis, MN USA ... Clan: Scholars
- Contact:
I serve where needed.Calidus wrote:and to the others that read the post but didn't put in their 2 cents, thanks for NOTHING!
-Bryk
Matt Worden Games ... Gem Raider, DareBase, Castle Danger, Keeps & Moats Chess
- trewqh
- Moderator
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:00 am
- Location: Bialystok, Poland clan: The Vulkings
The rules we have now are good in my opinion. Some players will try to abuse it to secure their place in the VP rat-race (I don't blame them if that's what they're here for), but all in all most of us see how such behaviour can spoil the fun for other players.
Trying each time to judge when a player did it to deny someone VPs would not only be difficult, but also a nightmare in terms of community atmosphere, so let's leave things the way they are.
Han's proposition of introducing conventions (as opposed to rules) comes to mind...
Trying each time to judge when a player did it to deny someone VPs would not only be difficult, but also a nightmare in terms of community atmosphere, so let's leave things the way they are.
Han's proposition of introducing conventions (as opposed to rules) comes to mind...