Nap Clarification

[Validon]

If someone were to ask for a nap and they said this:

Lets start with an 8 turn nap with a 2 turn notification.

What would you think that means?

I would like to hear from a few different people but not the ones involved in the dispute(they know who they are).

Thanks

[korexus]

This again?

I would think that means email back and check.

I always word my NAPs as '2 turn notification, no notification before turn X' to make things clear, but a fair number of people will use the wording you give to mean the NAP lasts 8 turns, so notification can be sent on or after turn 6. Do a forum search for NAPs, you'll find all the old discussions...


korexus.

[Saladin]

I have to agree with Korexus.

[Lardmaster]

I would read it as a minimum of 10 turns. 8 turns before you can offer the 2 turn notification.

[Hannibal]

If someone were to ask for a nap and they said this:

Lets start with an 8 turn nap with a 2 turn notification.

What would you think that means?

I would like to hear from a few different people but not the ones involved in the dispute(they know who they are).

Thanks

I have nothing to do with the game, and I haven't followed whichever game it is, and I have no idea who's side I'll be supporting when I give my "answer", since you wanted some views.

IMHO, I'd say it clearly "means" that it will run for 8 turns or more, so can be cancelled by either party after T6 has run, giving 2 turns notice, so that it can stop after the end of the 8th turn from "now"....

I'm assuming that "Let's start ...." tells me that this is a mail at the start of a game, before T1 runs. That wd mean that either side can notify cancellation after T6 has run, notice to run during T7 and T8, ready for hostilities to commence from the start of T9. And if one side notifies only after T7 has run, then it's T8 and T9 that are the notice-period, and hostilities commence from the start of T10. Etc.

Specify when is the soonest that hostilities could commence, for mutual clarity? Eg " So, no hostilities between us till at least the start of Turn X ..."

Han

[Validon]

IF "2 turn notification" is used then everyone would have to know that you need to send in a notice 2 turns before you end the nap regardless of the other wording used? I know this is an old topic but I am not so sure that it is bad to bring it back up especially with some new players who may or may not know this as well as some older palyers who may need a memory jog.

[korexus]

That is how most people would read it.

I know that last time this came up a couple of players read it as an 8 turn NAP, so attack on turn 9 even without notice and the notification was just a polite reminder which could be ignored, but they were definitely the minority (and probably the ones who caused the question in the first place. )

Bottom line is always get a clear NAP description so this can't happen.


korexus.

[Raw]

This means you can attack at any time...

No, I read it as you can give notification after turn 6 and can attack on turn 9.

I am suprised no one brought up spying though. This also includes no spying in my opinion, but others view it differently. So I would clarify that.

[Lardmaster]

Agreed. I always include no spying. In centre island Masjwar wouldn't agree to a nap with no spying. So I killed him.

[SmashFace]

i would also say you could cancel after 6 and after turn 8 the fighting could begin.

[Kikkertje]

Clearly 8 turns until expiring. So you can not attack on turn 1-8, but can on turn 9. The 2-turn prewarning is part of the deal, which also expires after turn 8.

[Xizor]

Don't know that I need to hide my identity, but I will for now. I agree with Korexus to e-mail and ask for clarification...

Your offer on 1/9:
Let's start with an 8 turn nap with a 2 turn notivication.

I asked for clarification on 1/11:
When you say 8 turn nap with 2 turn notification do you mean continuous with a minimum 8 turns? Or just 8 turns?

You replied on 1/11:
The nap is 8 turns with a 2 turn notification set up so that no one can attack prior to turn 9.


In my opinion there are 2 NAPs in WOK. 1 is continuous with a minimum # of turns, thus the notification. The other is a set # of turns. I knew when he worded that the way he did there would be problems, but when he e-mailed back and said no attack prior to turn 9... I agreed to that.

[Calidus]

Hmm, interesting dilemma, and one that usually ends with loads and loads of name calling, finger pointing and the like......

I read it as 8 turn nap set in stone, then can be ended with two turn notification. I would usually say turn 10, but I would also clarify when it would be acceptable to give the notice. Sometimes, it becomes necessary to give notice at turn 6.

[Validon]

No name calling or whatever will come of this. I do respect the other person involved even though I strongly disagree with their reasoning. 2 turn notiffication would mean that you must give a notification otherwise why would you put those words in the nap. But, OH WELL, lets play on.

[Donut]

What then is the point of saying 8 turns? The biggest problem is that there is a combination of 2 different types of a NAP.

[Funtastick]

I don't know why I'm actually posting about this, but here is my opinion:

The NAP is 8 turns...regardless of notification. Because the NAP doesn't state "with a 2 turn notification after." If you can say the notification is set up specifically so you can't attack until turn 9...there really is no point of even saying there's a notification. All the agreement says is that you have a NAP through 8 turns and after that you have nothing.

[korexus]

I think the mention of 2 turn notice shows that Val meant it to be a continuous NAP, (un)fortunately WoK is multicultural and so misunderstandings can occur.

'Xizor' - in the worst attempt to mask an identity ever - shows this perfectly. Validon wrote 'no one can attack prior to turn 9'. In his mnd meaning 'whatever happens, we have 8 turns of peace, but after that there's still the 2-turn notice'. Xizor read it as 'attack on turn 9'. You might wonder what the mention of the 2 turns is for then, but some people in WoK have a fairly direct way of readin stuff. I don't know if you'd noticed that...

Continuous is a good word to use in NAPs, it shows that you want the NAP to continue beyond the original limit. Of course some people will still try to wriggle out, but it cuts down on misunderstandings, and I see Xizor more as a misunderstander than a wriggler...

korexus.

[Hannibal]

Continuous is a good word to use in NAPs, it shows that you want the NAP to continue beyond the original limit. Of course some people will still try to wriggle out, but it cuts down on misunderstandings, and I see Xizor more as a misunderstander than a wriggler...

korexus.

Sorry Kor (I'm sure you'll get your own back!), but I tend to disagree. I don't think using the word "continuous" helps by even an inch - in fact I think it is either redundant or clouds the issue and makes it worse!

It leads one guy to take it as "rolling until" and the other guy to regard it as "forever unless countermanded". Aggro. And does NOTHING to say whether you can give notice after Turn 6 for hostilities on Turn 9, or only give notice after Turn 8 for hostilities on Turn 11. It doesn't help at all. IMHO.

Better is to always specify " .. which means no hostilities till at least Turn X". You can always wrap around that with hopes for it to continue till the end of the game, or even saty sorry for specifying, but it's best if we both see the terms the same way ....

But throwing in "continuous" does not clarify, and tends to make it worse? [dangnabbit. Kor will now say no to my next 3 suggestions for the site !]

Han

[Aussie Gaz]

If it gets confusing for the veteran players. How must it be for the newbies?

When in doubt spell out exactly what you mean.

8 turn minimum, 2 turn notice therafter, no attacks, no spies, no missiles,no magic, no letting someone through to attack (this last one is very hard to prove of course).

Gaz

ps in the example given at the start of this thread I would treat it as 8 turns before notice can be given.

[Underdog]

If someone were to ask for a nap and they said this:

Lets start with an 8 turn nap with a 2 turn notification.

What would you think that means?

I would like to hear from a few different people but not the ones involved in the dispute(they know who they are).

Thanks

Now I know you dont want to hear from me on this one.
I remember when this stupid 2 turn notice thing started and I commented to some people that this is going to be the single biggest source of misunderstandings in this game. it started out pretty simple but then players started tweaking the defination of terms. when this whole thing started 2 turn notification automatically meant running. the first time I heard of it there was no minimum length it was just a "2 turn notice NAP"
then people started complaining about when the notice was sent. Then the complaints started about a minimum length for the nap. then suddenly players wanted 48 hours notice before the turn was due to qualify as 2 turns then;
you understand where I am going with this. The original concept was good but the different interpretations of things made them ridiculous. some people had slow e-mail and didnt

( OK now I am going to ramble off topic. What is going on with this every time I hit the apostrophe key this thing goes nuts on me. I have no clue what is happening but I get a search thing at the bottom of the screen. does this happen to others or is it just this dangnabbit puter? I am getting annoyed.)

continued:
recieve the 2 turn notice until after the turn ran so they complained about the timing. I try to keep them as simple as possible to avoid confusion but it is impossible sometimes. get used to it and read my rant on the other thread about the same thing.

OK I am done ranting