I'm a bit lost now

[Egbert]

Glad someone spotted it! And good to see you again, Egbert.

My office has blocked most internet access, so I peruse the boards at home at night. Not enough time to play a game, though, but I'm here.

[korexus]

Get your priorities sorted, quit your job!

Nah, I guess that's fair enough, I've been running out time to play too since I stopped being a student. If there was a slow turn around (say a week per turn) would you have a chance? - Or are you strictly a spectator for now?


I guess we should open a new standard game now that forest lak has started.


Chris.

[Duke]

It was better in the good ol days, isnt that right Egbert?

[Egbert]

It is very strange how we lost almost everyone. I bet one factor is the fact that for quite awhile, many people just could not navigate the site. I hope it builds up again, but I will not hold my breath.

And yes, I will just be a spectator for now.

[trewqh]

Come on! In the "old days" it was much more difficult to send in orders and running the game was a nightmare in comparison to what we have now! Still, those difficulties did not discourage people from playing the game. I agree that the site's interface is far from perfect and I see how it can discourage new visitors. I also wish I had the designing and coding skills to improve it, but I can't agree to blaming problems with navigating the site as the factor that caused the community to "lose almost everyone".

[Hannibal]

I agree 100% with trewqh.

Putting in orders to the site is much easier than it used to be, passing orders to the GM.

And the workload for the GM has been cut to a fraction of what it was in the 'Good ol' days". Hey, Egbert, I remember an effusive post from you saying how incredibly easy it was to GM now with the new system; you were stunned and impressed, and recommended everybody else to go GM a game and see how easy it had now become!! Want me to find it? So I did and it was true.

Now, lots of us found the changeover confusing, even though, as you said, it made it SO much easier to run games, and also made it easier to submit orders.

Now, I did myself have a softspot for the OLD website layout (hey, couldn't we just have kept the old pathways whilst we made GM'ing 10 times easier, and inputting orders 3 times easier?).

And that navigation might still put off new arrivals, but it's sure not the key reason why it "lost almost everyone". That was down to sheer nastiness from some people, putting other people off looking forward to coming to the site. I skipped it for a year or so myself!

Eg, me having returned, I've looked at the Rules you apparently updated. I can't spot the areas where you made changes? Is it the area about spying? Would you mind if I had a go at a from-the-beginning re-write?

[trewqh]

The manual you can find on the site was never updated or replaced with Egbert's very good rewrite. The reason was that at the same time that Eg did his rewrite some of us were discussing restructuring the game phases. A new manual would need to include such a change, but since we never reached an agreement or, rather, the discussion was somehow forgotten and never finished, the manual was never updated with Egbert's version. I once posted a link to Eg's version, but this link does not work anymore. Here's a new one:

http://www.boloyoung.w.tkb.pl/newmanual.rtf

Rich Text Format (rtf) is a safe format that any version of MS Word can open.

[korexus]

Really? I thought I'd uploaded Eg's version. I definitely dod something because the manual refers to WoK Online these days. Must be going senile...

I can put up Eg's version or Han's version or whatever on the site if someone sends it to me...


Chris.

[Hannibal]

Of the 4 or 5 of us who read this, 2 or 3 will think I'm exaggerating. Nope! Let's look at just the current START of the Manual

-= WORLD OF KAOMARIS ONLINE - THE ENDLESS STRUGGLE =-
##############################################

Hmm, if this is supposed to be for 2007, why does it bother with "online", that's only new news if you were there when we did things the old way? Irrelevant to stres ""online" now?

And why doesn't the title give a NAME of a game, signal a game to be played, not a "world" to join?

And stressing "the endless struggle" (in the title) has to be shooting oneself in the foot as far as today's generation of triallists are concerned? On the plus side, it might suggest we're one of those endless-adventure games, (y'know what I mean), but we'd then disappoint, since we are not. But for others looking for a "game" they can play, er, "endless struggle" might well be a huge put-off?

Oh, and the accompanying logo screams WOK 1V. Great. That helps now?

USER'S MANUAL FOR VERSION 1.00 :
====================================

User's MANUAL. Huh? Version x.yy. Huh? Look, I appreciate the PRODUCER's viewpoint, name a version, but hey ... Quite apart from the debatable use of the apostophe, we're talking Manual and version here. Why don't we call it Rules. Or Rules Manual if you want to cover both bases of people who come out of PC-gaming and out of boardgsme gaming, plus online gaming. So the TITLE is wrong - at least, not optimal. And relegate "Version" to the end or a subscript.

And, er, where does a new visitor FIND these Rules? Sorry, manual for Version 1.00? Just try and find them! You have to do 3 clicks if you can guess the route... Why aren't RULES one of the items that desrve to be first-level on the left, or acroos the top, on the Home Page?

[last edited on 05/04/05.]


>>PLEASE NOTE :
Since WoK became automated the game has become much easier for a Game Master to manipulate.

This does not seem like the very first point to make about the Rules to a complete newbie? They care about its past incarnation? They're delighted it is easier to GM?!


Almost all of the values below are GM-Definable and so may be different from the defaults given. Please check the houserules of a game to be sure!

Yep. But isn't that kinda better at the END, after you've given some rules and values, at which point it can actually be understood?

"At the dawn of the new Age, we face our toughest battle. This beautiful Island is now home to ten of us - nine of us will dig our grave while the last one standing will find the Paradise we all thought lost."
- General D.Wight, "Dark Warriors" -

Hey, I have no problem with this ... nice flavour!.


1> What is WoK On ?

Er, yes, what IS woK On? The wok-on bit comes from the time of changeover, to flag the difference, means nothing now.

WoK Online is an interactive, open-ended game of strategy and skill based on Al Gassner's WoK IV: The Final Conflict. It is designed to be simple to learn and still quite complex to master.
WoK On is currently in FULL PLAY. There are 60 provinces to be conquered and 10 players may try their luck.
WoK IV is developed and programmed mainly by Chris Fitzsimons and Rune Andreas Grimstad.

Open-ended?? WoK 1V? Wok On? FULL PLAY? What does this mean to a new arrival who manages to find the Rules? (Sorry, manual version 1.00)?

2> How to play, Fees and First Steps
WoK Online should be an easy-to-play but still complex game.
There are no fees whatsoever - WoK On is absolutely FREE.
Just sign up to the World of Kaomaris site then pop over to the forums to find out what's going on.
If you have chosen the name for your character please stick to it for all future games you play in - the use of multiple accounts is NOT allowed.

- feel free to make any HomePage or discussion group you need !

3> Missing Turns,dropping out, Groups and winning the Game:
If you miss a turn or drop out of the game all your troops will dig in and remain in a defensive position. No new troops will be recruited, all orders for your workers remain intact.
If you miss orders for 3 Turns in a row, you will be considered as to have QUIT the game. You can not re-enter this specific game. (NB, sending in completely blank orders will NOT count as missing a turn).
If 5+ players of a group QUIT the game (before they get RIPed) the remaining Players will have to fight to the bitter end and the last one surviving will get only 1 VP ! If a game starts with less then 10 Players all empty slots are considered like Players that have QUIT.

Er, we seem to FIRST start with rules about drop-outs and VP's? Clearly from when this was an update and there was some issue about what to do about VP's if 4 or 5 people drop out of a game .... hey, fine as a memo, not great as the FIRST POINT in your rules? Especially if the reader doesn't yet know what "blank orders", "Quit", or "VP" mean?

We offer Groups for "Beginner" (0-2 games started, none won) or "Advanced" (3+ games started or 1+ won).

Er, what are "Groups"? Do we mean "games"?

Only up to 2 Players can win a game, alone or as an Alliance (sharing victory Points then).

Up to two alone or as an alliance? Yep, I needed that explaining when I started ....!

4> The Beginning
You start in a single, randomly selected province. The province you are given will not be adjacent to a province of another player, so everyone gets a chance to build up in the first round. The provinces differ in the following aspects :



No time to edit or shorten.

Han

[korexus]

Ok, so check out the link to Egbert's version. See if you prefer that.

(The manual which Han is talking about is the interim one I wrote so current players could pick up WoK-On from WoK IV while we were waiting for Eg's new version. I didn't realise it was still there.)

On the navigation front, surely the first link a new visitor would click on would be "New visitors look here" from which the manual is directly linked. Not too hard to find. It is also linked in other places, I believe you were one of the people who wanted me to leave all these extra links in when I was trying to slim down the site...


Chris

[Allister Fiend]

The Family will as always still kick your asses all over town......


I see Dunkin is still creeping around here too....



You know who.....

[Hannibal]

Ok, so check out the link to Egbert's version. See if you prefer that.

(The manual which Han is talking about is the interim one I wrote so current players could pick up WoK-On from WoK IV while we were waiting for Eg's new version. I didn't realise it was still there.)

On the navigation front, surely the first link a new visitor would click on would be "New visitors look here" from which the manual is directly linked. Not too hard to find. It is also linked in other places, I believe you were one of the people who wanted me to leave all these extra links in when I was trying to slim down the site...


Chris

Hey, Kor, friend, I'm not looking for an argument here! I'd like to show you what I mean about getting to the rules. Soorry I gotta go for an hour or two, so PLS don't change anything while I nip back and type, OK? Otherwise it might be no longer true by the time I post. And none of it is your fault.

[trewqh]

I guess you're typing now, Han, and so you won't read this before you post, but I'll give it a try; what's the point of pointing out every weakness of a manual nobody is trying to defend? We have a new version that did not get published due to reasons I mentioned earlier. Why not concentrate on improving that one?

[korexus]

Not sure if he's typing now, but he probably was typing when you put the link up. Never mind, nobody (that's still here ) is too touchy these days so I'm sure we'll manage not to declare blood feuds over this...

Egbert's offering was and is massively superior, I can only appologise again that I didn't upload it (and this is my fault despite what Han thinks). There are a couple of things I would change. Specifically the bit about attacks. Hryllantre is in good company, it seems, if the undisputed champion of WoK made the same mistake about reserve attack orders!

I'm sure Han will have other suggestions too when he gets back, but he's the words guy, so I'll leave it to him.

As for site navigation. We are stuck with the phpNuke setup, but it is fairly flexible. When people suggest improvements something along those lines normally happens (eg the Games box to your left) but what I need is alternatives not just "I don't like it like it is".
Unfortunately, although the top down menu we used to have was lovely for navigation, it ate up about a quarter of your computer's processor power. Now think how many windows or tabs you might have open on WoK when entering duel orders. That's why the menu can't return...

[Hannibal]

OK.

[korexus]

Just to keep count, people logged in during the last 24 hours:

Hannibal
korexus
trewqh
Donut
Kikkertje
Egbert
Hryllantre
Duke
Alister Fiend
mullog

All of whom except mullog posted.
Also, Validon has come back recently and is playing in two games so is probably reading the forums, I just haven't seen him and Lardmaster and Aussie Gaz have both popped in to say hello.

Now admittedly, the fact that I can list the people who have logged in from memory does mean that there aren't a huge amount (and that I really need to get out more) but it is substantially more than 4.

Not that I think we should move the discussion somewhere private. The more suggestions on site improvement we get, the better...

So fire away with the suggestions, we can try to get a discussion going.


Chris.

[ramble] I miss the old flamers. You know, yesterday while I was doing something or other I got distracted and found myself on the 'sandborn oasis' thread. It was real fun to re-read, I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time. We really need to get more people back so I can start pissing them off again...[/ramble]

[trewqh]

Sorry about that, Han, but somehow I read it:

"I'd like to show you what I mean about getting AT the rules."

I'm really sorry!

And I only noticed how funny my mistake was when I realised I had made it.

[Hannibal]

We have a new version that did not get published due to reasons I mentioned earlier. Why not concentrate on improving that one?

I deleted my stuff about navigation - I was wrong.

[Hannibal]

Kor, pls put add an item called "Rules" in our home-page left-side menu-list.

Then make those rules good and clear.

Maybe tell me how to FIND the critters to look at?



Han

[trewqh]

Argh. I don't know if you missed or ignored what I wrote in this thread on Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:30 pm, Han. The rewritten Rules were never published on our site because it was not 100% complete. The reason being:

at the same time that Eg did his rewrite some of us were discussing restructuring the game phases. A new manual would need to include such a change, but since we never reached an agreement or, rather, the discussion was somehow forgotten and never finished, the manual was never updated with Egbert's version.

And I posted a link to it twice for you to read it before we publish it. Here it is again: [click on the line directly below]
http://www.boloyoung.w.tkb.pl/newmanual.rtf

Luvy'all too! Seriously!