And one more... WOK5 V3.30.7 released !!

[Undertaker]

That way, players could use those small offensive spells early on, and incorporate it into their military strategy. Right now, they are really just for the endgame, which most players don't get to experience.

And by the endgame, most of the lesser power spells are useless.

I would love to see earlier use of spells.


Now where did Al run off to?

[Saladin]

There he is Eg! Hiding behind his stack of Star Wars magazines! Go get him!

[BigJOzzy]

I have to disagree with most and say I think WOK 5 should be hard.

Lets face it the chalanges we face in the game are always changing, because people come up with new stratagies, and then we come up with counter strategies to face these new strategies. It is always the way it is in good games, one thing leads to another and there is no stagnation, since there are so many variables that someone will always come up with something new.

Now with the changes made, and some that will still come, this gives us all a chance to try and do other things and come up with the next great strategy and see if others can counter it. All part of this game, and I for one love it and don't want to change it to someting less.

Now I know some of you might not agree and I am sorry but I real do love playing the game and learning from it, and no I don't count everything, but I do when it matters, but most of the time I wing it too. However, the more you play the better those guesses become. So keep playing everyone and know that the next great idea is jut out there for you to find.

Massielita

[Egbert]

Lets face it the chalanges we face in the game are always changing, because people come up with new stratagies, and then we come up with counter strategies to face these new strategies. It is always the way it is in good games, one thing leads to another and there is no stagnation, since there are so many variables that someone will always come up with something new.

Now with the changes made, and some that will still come, this gives us all a chance to try and do other things and come up with the next great strategy and see if others can counter it. All part of this game, and I for one love it and don't want to change it to someting less.

Now I know some of you might not agree and I am sorry but I real do love playing the game and learning from it, and no I don't count everything, but I do when it matters, but most of the time I wing it too. However, the more you play the better those guesses become. So keep playing everyone and know that the next great idea is jut out there for you to find.

I agree with Massi wholeheartedly on this. For those of you familiar with "Magic: The Gathering," the success of that game has come from the many combinations of ways to play the game --- that there is not just 1 way to win, but many possibilities. Some people play just to have fun or to try out a new combination of things and see how it works.

IMHO, WOK5 could become a lot more fun to play, and a lot more attractive to other non-WOK5 players, if we added more combinations and possibilities to the game. As it stands now, there are only 1 or 2 set strategies which will win WOK5 (chopping and upgrading armies, or sleeping and leveling). That's boring. I see 2 ways that we can easily change this:

1. Tinker with the main "core" of the game (upgrades, maintenance costs, leveling, etc.) to make other strategies viable and the current popular strategies less desirable, so that there is a more even playing field for all strategies --- which is currently being discussed on these boards right now, in other threads.

2. Introduce "new" aspects to the game which will increase the number of combinations/military strategies that a player can employ. By "new," I don't mean totally new --- I am referring to new tribe ideas (we should try and make every tribe a good option), and also the introduction of a large aspect of WOK5 that has gone largely unused so far (which I have mentioned before) --- magic. By making magic available to players early on, we would be increasing the number of possible game strategies by a large margin.

My fellow Scholars have been discussing various ideas regarding this, and here are a few random thoughts that have been bounced around:

The Gang Lufo tribe (increase spell power) is not of much use in its present form, but if tinkered, could become a nice option. As I posted earlier on the messageboard, we really need to bring magic into the WOK5 game much earlier than we can now, since there are so many cool low-cost offensive spells that are going unused. I suggested that we actually change the MREs destroyed by low-cost spells directly, rather than needing a tribe to do it. But, if Al isn't willing to do that, the Gang Lufo tribe could increase MRE destruction on a sliding scale: 3x MREs destroyed if gold cost < 100, 2x MREs destroyed if < 200, etc.

Gobet (harvesting) and Tiplap (chopping) could be made not just to increase efficiency, but also to increase growth of crops and trees in your provinces. This would make these tribes very viable.

Quipee could allow teleporting regardless of your Tech level, or even if teleporting is not an option in the game.

Other Tribe ideas:
--- A tribe that increases GCA accuracy by about 10-15%.
--- A tribe that can change the weather (a simple input in the first set of orders).
--- A tribe that gives you the ability to spy even if there are no spies in the source province, and/or does not allow the victim to know you are spying on them.
--- A tribe which has the ability to buy things from the market regardless of whether the seller is your neighbor or has a negative NAP level with you.

I am also aware of good ideas from other non-Scholars, but I will let them post their ideas if they wish. Hopefully others will chime in regarding new ideas, and ways to make the game fresh.

I would also like to implore Al to get magic going earlier in the game --- make those cheap offensive spells cause more MRE destruction, and allow mining to be easier early on (you need too high a tech level right now to start mining). That's not too much to ask, is it?

[Allister Fiend]

I believe we are re-evaluating all these options and tribes.

We have come up with a variety of changes to possibly make, it's just convincing Al to go ahead with them and let it roll.

The problem is if we change too much at once then we are risking a very unbalanced game if it's not done on a "as we go" basis.

A little at a t ime is the best way to make this better for all.
It may take a few months to impliment them 'cause we need games to play them in first


Looks like 2 new ones are about to start up so we can see how the latest changes will work.

[gm_al]

Yes Egbert, I think you mentionned making magic more early available now like 10 times in one thread.

I can see early magic use, as I can see more balancing in the Tribes to make them even more attractive. What I DONT see is switching Tribes to do something like "change the weather" or "buy even if youre not a neighbor"... c'mon you wouldnt REALLY use those over the "good" ones, would you ? Try to think on a larger scale for Tribes and avoid the "only-useful-in-a-rare-occasion" uses.

The comparison to M:TG is interesting. As you know Im an avid MMO player and I suggest you to give GUILD WARS a try if you like the Diablo and Warcraft series. What they did is take the Diablo hack-and-slay and make your character go collect/find new skills (like cards in M:TG). For every mission you then do you pick a set of 8 of your skills (like taking a deck of cards with you). All of a sudden an action-oriented game gets a new dimension and its like playing one deck versus another within a dynamic environment. Regarding WOK this is a very interesting twist I am looking to integrate in future updates or new games...

Keep posting, nice suggestions so far !

[Egbert]

What I DONT see is switching Tribes to do something like "change the weather" or "buy even if youre not a neighbor"... c'mon you wouldnt REALLY use those over the "good" ones, would you ? Try to think on a larger scale for Tribes and avoid the "only-useful-in-a-rare-occasion" uses.

Well, who says that a Tribe only has to do 1 thing? We could have tribes that do a number of things to make them as equally powerful as the good tribes. How about a tribe with a power that can "break the rules", such that it can:

--- change the weather
--- buy from the market regardless of NAP or neighbor
--- can try more than 2 spycodes per turn (currently a weak tribe's sole attribute)
--- can set feeding level below 35% (I believe this is currently prohibited)
--- can change its spycode with no reduction in EFF (currently a weak tribe's sole attribute)

We can have various tribes that are multi-faceted, so that they can do cool things, and still be a viable choice for players rather than just the "good" tribes.

[Duke]

There he is Eg! Hiding behind his stack of Star Wars magazines! Go get him!

Just noticed the stuff written on the bottom of this characters posts. In response: Who are? Oh those clowns I've saved for last to have fun with. Good luck getting halfway there