Because I'm tired of getting cr*p from TK...

Post by **korexus** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:27 pm

OK, recently a couple of issues have come up regarding my current game, the Grudge Match. I'll leave it up to you clever guys to work out the source of the accusations...

Firstly (and much more important to my mind) is the suggestion that in placing the players I deliberately gave my clan mates (Raw and Xarfei) easy opponents. Personally, I don't feel this is the case. Nick/TK was a line up begging to happen, Val and Donut both asked to play each other, which left CP, Mullog, Lardmaster, Xarfei, Ausie Gaz and Raw to be paired off. If anyone thinks that I showed favoritism please post here I really would like to know.

The second matter is more general. If player misses a turn, but shortly after a turn is run sends orders for that turn. Should the GM just run those orders for the next turn without any confirmation from the player? My line on this is no. if the player can't at least ask for the same orders to be used then I have no obligation (or indeed right) to second guess his intentions. I would genuinely be interested in the views of the rest of the community on this issue.

Overall, I think I'm working towards a no room mate policy in my games. I have no problem with a player taking issue with a decision I have made and will defend myself either here or before the WSC/GMC quite happily. But when it comes up while I'm down the pub I really wonder why I bother...

~A fairly pissed off (and slightly pissed) GM Chris.

SmashFace · Post by **SmashFace** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:38 pm

well i see no reason to beleive Chris has shown any favoritism, and as a GM myself, i just enjoy running the games, if a clanmate wins, wonderful if not, boo hoo.... but i see no evidence, nor any reason whatsoever to accuse him of any sort of favortism

second issue, i also agree with Chris here, unless explicitly told, he has no *obligation* to run those orders... it doesn't take much to say "run my orders i submitted for turn 2" everyone here i'm sure checks their e-mail multiple times per day and i dont' think that is asking so much. this also requires the player to show initiative that they care, i wouldn't leave my turn up to chance like that...

SF

Post by **Donut** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:06 am

I think TK is out of his mind if he thinks Chris played favortism to Xarfei and Raw. I've GM'd games for all but Xarfei and know that they are all very capable WOK 5 players.

On the other issue... If I have a set of orders that haven't been run yet... whether they were intended for turn 2 or 3 or whatever... I'll use them. I do see it as a favor to the player, but it's one that I make without questioning myself. As I see it, the orders are intended for the next turn...

Donut

Allister Fiend · Post by **Allister Fiend** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:38 am

I guess I'll put my $.02 worth while I'm here.

On the orders issue, If I was a GM(and I am not) I personally would NOT use those orders intended for turn 2 on turn 3. Why in the heck would you even wnat that to happen? Most likely it would not work the way that player intended unless you were all by your lonesome in some nice sleepy corner.

Whoever is saying they would use them, really needs to contact that player and ask him/her first, not just assume they are for the next turn unless told so by that specific player.

As for the favoritism, well that's just a personal opinion on who is "good" and who is "not so good" of a player.

AF

P.S. We all know that Raw is not that good of a player and pairing him up with Gaz is actually in Aussie's favor.

Now Xarfei against Lm is currently in Xarfei's favor since LM is going M-3 in all his games it seems.

TK · Post by TK » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:39 am

I will try to nip this one in the bud, but somehow I get the feeling that whatever I post will simply result in extra pages of spiel from Chris about how he is right, etc etc...

1. I didnt make that accusation. I do think that Raw-Gaz is the greatest mismatch on the map. No offence Gaz, but Raw has been 2nd in the Champs the last 2 years. Thats better than anyone else in the group (including me and Dameon). Has Gaz even made it to the Champs in those years?? I am actually not sure! And certainly, their pairing could not be called an ACCIDENT. Certainly, Chris chose the match-up on purpose. Whether this is enough to constitute favouritism, I am just not sure. What I do know is that Massi signed up, and Raw vs Massi would have been a more even fight.

I certainly didnt say that Xarfei has an easy match. I simply said that it has become easy since Lardy missed the turn. Nobody could argue with that.

2. This is not an accusation, just a disagreement on what is the "right" thing to do. I look at it from Lardy's point of view. If his orders are not run, he is gonna wonder why. If he is expecting them to be used, we are gonna have a flamer on our hands. I think a GM should aim to avoid flamers about his games.

In fact I suggested that Chris should email Lardy to clarify whether or not to use the old orders for the new turn. Equally I would suggest that Lardy should contact Chris and let him know either way (but Lardy was not in the pub with us!). BOTH parties are responsible for what happens with those orders.

If Lardy sends in new orders of course, it doesnt matter.

I would also like to point out that it was not me that started the conversation about what to do with those orders - I simply told Xarfei and Korexus what *I* would do in that situation. In my mind, prevention is better than cure. In Chris' mind, prevention removes the chance of an argument on the boards...

I also point out that it was Chris who started shouting in the pub. Its a game. We have different opinions of the right course of action. Get over it.

All in all, this is rather a non-event. But I'm sure we'll see a few more pages of drivel yet. Cue Chris...

Post by **Donut** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:17 am

I think, and have told you numerous times already (but I'll make it public), that you underestimate Gaz; and dare I say, overestimate Raw

.

How Chris chose who to leave out of the game is solely to him and I don't feel he should need to explain himself. I know he debated for quite some time on how to do it.

My original suggestion to you both still stands. Square away and start kickin!

Donut

Raw · Post by **Raw** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:27 am

How can you guys say Gaz and I are a mismatch?

Gaz is a equal player with me at wok 4 and a better player than me at wok 5. I get most of my VP's from wok 4. This is wok 5, I am fair game.

As for Champs....diplomacy (spelling?) is key. When you NAP with Egbert you know you'll be in it for the long run. Both games...guess what; Egbert and I have nap'd and he has kicked my butt in the end.

Cheers,
Raw

Validon · Post by **Validon** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:13 am

My 2 cents: I don't see any favoritism here. Who knew LM would miss a turn. I also believe that AG is a good wok 5 player so no cake walk for Raw(Although I do think that Raw is a better wok 5 player then he says he is).
On the running turns issue - I would not use the orders either and I couldn't even see how someone would think that you would use his old orders without any communication. It is clearly up to the player to take the step to contact the GM in this instance. A GM could ask but it isn't necessary.
Oh, and you may want to stay out of the pub when discussing wok when you are both involved in a game like this. That would probably help keep these issues from coming up.

Mullog · Post by **Mullog** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:48 am

I aslo want to comment!

If you had used my orders for turn #2 on turn #3 I would be seriously pissed and would have demanded a rerun! For why the hell would you do that? If I send my orders after the turn is run then that is my fault, not the gm's.

And I do not think Chris has favoured any of his clan mates here. I must say that I feel favoured here though...

Aussie Gaz · Post by **Aussie Gaz** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:33 am

How short a memory span do you have TK?

I have shared victory in the last two wok5 games I have played in and one of those games you got the other 1.5 vp's.

Just because I don't play in many games now does not make me a pushover.

My WOK5 rating is 1.24 (2 games) , Raw's is 1.12 (3 games)

Another turn or two should show who will be victorious in each pairing anyway.

Post by **Lardmaster** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:25 am

Okay for what it's worth here's my thoughts. (I consider myself friends with both Korexus and TK so this is just relevant to the game).

1) I know I am not the greatest wok5 player around, though I have won VPs in it, however I wouldn't have cared whoever I got in this game.

2) I don't think it makes that much difference in this game who your oppo is.

3) I sent my orders for turn 2 in late, unfortuntaely Chris had just ran the turn and said he wasn't prepared to re-run it as he had already updated the map. I have no issue whatsoever with that. (Unfortunately my job means I can be called away to the other end of the country with no notice or e-mail access, also resulting in me going m3 in Joshs game. Sorry to everyone in that game)

4) As to this running the same orders for the next turn, this does confuse me. Next turn isn't due yet and I e-mailed Chris yesterday at 2pm to ask him to use the same set I'd sent for turn 2, without having read this thread.

5) At least this has livened the boards up a bit. They have been very boring recently

Post by **korexus** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:44 am

Lardmaster,

You're right that it was you that kicked off the turn 2/turn 3 orders thing. - I refused to tell Xarfei whther or not you'd sent orders for this turn which set off the entire discussion. As opinion was divided, I thought I'd ask here to see what other people thought.

As for the favouritism thing, TK. Maybe you didn't mean to suggest that I was showing favouritism, but that's certainly what it sounded like to me - and when I receive a message from another player including the line 'He [TK] even accused you of giving the Scholars "easy matchups" so they'd win.' I feel like the best thing to do is get everything out in the open.

CrazyPsycho · Post by **CrazyPsycho** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:47 am

what difference does it make with who your first opponent is. You still got to kill everybody else on the other islands in order to win...

TK · Post by TK » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:13 pm

Lovely. I am glad thats all cleared up then. Finally...

korexus wrote:...and when I receive a message from another player including the line 'He [TK] even accused you of giving the Scholars "easy matchups" so they'd win.' I feel like the best thing to do is get everything out in the open.

...I should point out that this quote is from Nick. Suddenly it all makes sense.

Post by **Dameon** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:41 pm

TK wrote: ...I should point out that this quote is from Nick. Suddenly it all makes sense.

Well, duh. It's not like you didn't write that to me TK; I wasn't just making it up. For what it's worth, I never thought you really meant that Chris was showing favoritism, I simply thought you were trying to scramble for any diplomatic advantage you could in your ongoing efforts to form an alliance with me this game. I mentioned it to Chris because I was pretty amused by it and it was typical TK; I never thought he'd take you seriously....it's not like anybody else does, after all.

Like I've said to you before, I am 100% OK with us destroying each other, which I am pretty sure is what is going to happen. The reason? Because I can't trust you as far as I could throw you (what with your track record of ditching allies if they show any sign of weakness), and because I'm realy quite tired of you saying you are a much better tactical player than me, which is far from the truth. So, we'll engage in our grudge match that will leave one of us dead and the other one weakened and almost dead, and that's fine with me.

Validon · Post by **Validon** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:12 pm

All I can say now is : GRUDGEMATCH is an awesome choice for a game Chris. Let's get some grudges and conflicts out in the open and duke it out. Hahahaha. Now how about another flamer??????

Donut wears dresses because they help him connect with his feminine side!!!!!!!!

J/K Donut

Post by **Egbert** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:19 pm

Dameon wrote:Like I've said to you before, I am 100% OK with us destroying each other, which I am pretty sure is what is going to happen. The reason? Because I can't trust you as far as I could throw you (what with your track record of ditching allies if they show any sign of weakness), and because I'm realy quite tired of you saying you are a much better tactical player than me, which is far from the truth. So, we'll engage in our grudge match that will leave one of us dead and the other one weakened and almost dead, and that's fine with me.

Raw · Post by **Raw** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:51 pm

Validon wrote:

Donut wears dresses because they help him connect with his feminine side!!!!!!!!

No...it's because he wants to show off his man boob's.

-Raw

Post by **Donut** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:07 pm

All about the legs fellas...

Donut

TK · Post by TK » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:00 pm

Dameon wrote:...I'm realy quite tired of you saying you are a much better tactical player than me, which is far from the truth. So, we'll engage in our grudge match that will leave one of us dead and the other one weakened and almost dead, and that's fine with me.

Havent you read your new turn report?!?