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Dameon
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Post by Dameon » Mon May 10, 2004 3:08 pm

Yay for a set end date and the possibility of actualy extinctions this time. I think that's most important, as with the progression of the game the only way to secure a food source might be to eat other species, eh? 8)
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Post by gm_al » Mon May 10, 2004 3:09 pm

The Player Manual has arrived !!

Download here plz:

http://www.kaomaris.com/WOKSP_Playermanual_V080.doc

(MS Word format)

This should cover pretty much all aspects of the game. Ive been working hard to get it that far. It will of course keep evolving and being updated as we progress, but its a start and I hope you like it.

More soon !

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Post by Mullog » Mon May 10, 2004 6:08 pm

Dameon wrote:Yay for a set end date and the possibility of actualy extinctions this time. I think that's most important, as with the progression of the game the only way to secure a food source might be to eat other species, eh? 8)


Especially now that squares start with only 500 plants, food will be much harder to get.
One interesting turn the game might take is that only the small herbivores survive, for there is too little food left to support the big herbivores and the carnivores... This will be interesting!

I have still not been able to complete the code, but I am getting near. Hopefully we can open the game for sign ups tomorrow.


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Dameon
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Post by Dameon » Mon May 10, 2004 8:10 pm

I don't have time to go over the manual in depth now, but two quick things. First of all, while I like the look, it's very hard to read the text on the very right side of the manual because of the border there. The left border is fine, but the right border really obscures some of the manual text. Is there a way to get rid of that?

Second, on the mutations table, next to all of the body size mutations, it says:

"Get saturation from Size X, helps PATT/PDEF"

That doesn't make sense to me- plant sizes only go up to 4, and even though BS can go to 8 species are not going to start finding BS 8 plants. Also in the mutations section, I really think that the fact that bigger BS need more saturation should be listed. I don't see it there (although it may be somewhere), but I feel players should be warned of this side effect as it can basically make or break a player strategy.

I'll return more feedback later when I have more of a chance to study the manual in-depth.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

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korexus
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Post by korexus » Tue May 11, 2004 1:31 am

Dameon wrote:I don't have time to go over the manual in depth now, but two quick things. First of all, while I like the look, it's very hard to read the text on the very right side of the manual because of the border there. The left border is fine, but the right border really obscures some of the manual text. Is there a way to get rid of that?


What resolution are you viewing at? I'm looking in 800X600 and can see all the words. If you're having issues, you may find sliding the horizontal view bar all the way to the right helps. -It doesn't matter if you can't see all of the the border after all...

Dameon wrote:Second, on the mutations table, next to all of the body size mutations, it says:

"Get saturation from Size X, helps PATT/PDEF"

That doesn't make sense to me- plant sizes only go up to 4, and even though BS can go to 8 species are not going to start finding BS 8 plants.


Code: Select all

·   A player may hunt a species/plants of bigger Body Size, but will not gain any food (saturation) from it


Dameon wrote:I think that

Also in the mutations section, I really think that the fact that bigger BS need more saturation should be listed. I don't see it there (although it may be somewhere), but I feel players should be warned of this side effect as it can basically make or break a player strategy.


Code: Select all

2.3.1.1. Effects of mutations – Overview
The effects of a mutation in one of the areas are as following:
Body Size   Effects hunting and saturation (hunger, food), helps with
                PATT/PDEF, enables OMNIVORE


Maybe it could be put more clearly. There was a formula in there, but me and Al started [s]arguing[/s] discussing about what the current formula actually is. As Rune wasn't there to tell us, it seemed wisest to take it out...

One thing that I noticed, the description of SYMBIOSIS still isn't as clear as it could be. Better might be something like,
"Allows cooperationwith another species type. When in the same square as the target type you..."

Think that's all...

korexus.
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Dameon
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Post by Dameon » Tue May 11, 2004 4:57 am

I am viewing at 1280 by 960, so my resolution is pretty high. Still, I use that resolution to view everything (programs, games, the web, etc) and I don't have problems with anything else- I would still suggest getting rid of that side border, because it has the potential to obscure words and no real positive effect.

I still think saying "Gains saturation from size X" is totally confusing, because even at say BS3, I can gain saturation from BS 2 or 1 plants. It would be better to say "can gain saturation from food up to BS X." Then, it makes sense. I didn't even understand what y'all were trying to say until you clarified it there a bit. Also, "effects hunting and saturation" doesn't mean much at all. While we don't necessarily need a specific formula, it should say something like "allows you to hunt food up to BS X and significantly increases the amount of saturation needed at each step". That at least gives the general idea- right now it's very vague.

Other things that I noticed now that I have time:

Section 1.1: It should be made clear that 3024 turns is exactly three weeks, for those folks who aren't good at math. :) Also, only 13 players per mobile game? That number seems kinda low for the mobile market, but then, I don't know a whole lot about it. Then again, I also think 50 is very high for the online market- I think a number in the 20-25 range is more realistic/reasonable.

Section 1.2: Are we going to require online Species players to join a clan? If so, some directions on doing so would go well here.

Section 2: I still STRONGLY believe "Skills" should be renamed "Abilities". It's confusing to say that you can buy mutations or skills with skill points, much clearer to say you can buy mutations or abilities with skill points. If we leave it as it is, people are going to start looking for "mutation points".....it can be confusing to new players.

Section 2.1.6.2: That table is nice, but deceptive. If the green spider is hunting that White Tiger, the chances of catching 155 of them isn't very high at all. Ergo the nutrition gained would also be lower- it's just a misleading table, I think.

Section 2.10.0: One flying bonus is listed as:

saturation consumption increases by 25%

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, I think it needs to be clarified. I can't even guess at this point- maybe you eat 25% more? Or less? Or need 25% more? Or less? I'm just not sure.

Section 2.2

The Kaomaris servers perform by default a Cron Job every 10 minutes. What exactly is a "Cron Job"???

Also in general I think carnivore may need some more work still to be viable. I am going to go for it this time around, I think, and see if it can compete. From my past experiences I'd say not, since plants can be an infinite food source while other species generally are not. The bright side being, of course, that if you eat another species after turn 1000 they don't come back now. Letting a carnivore revert to omnivore is useful, I guess, but I think it should be easier/cheaper to do.
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Post by GoatHerder » Tue May 11, 2004 7:38 am

Some comments on the manual:

******************************************************
1. Presenting the Game
I think an extra introductory paragraph may be handy, introducing WOK generally and the main website.
Something along the lines of:
1.1 Background
WOK SPECIES is another game from the World of Kaomaris (WOK) family of wargames. The World of Kaomaris main website is at www.kaomaris.com.


My reasoning is that the existing WOK games are mentioned in the manual itself (at 6.1.6.2 and at 1.3 where we mention EFF%), so it is appropriate to explain them. You could give a bit of a blurb about the WOK community & games if you feel like it.


******************************************************
(related to the above comment)
1.2 How to Register refers to the main WOK SPECIES site and the Kaobase V2 without saying what they are or where to find them This may need explaining better before the game goes into production.

******************************************************
6.1.6.2 says:
• One Turn allows a species to perform a series of attacks on another player’s species. This will be influenced by the different size of brains and also by the instinct of the attacker

I think the reference to "size of brain" is contradictory --- should be brain power. Maybe something like this:
• .... This will be influenced by the instinct and brain power of the attacker and defender


******************************************************
I notice that the manual doesn't print very well, although that is just a minor inconvenience that I can fix at my end.


Looking good, everybody! Keep up the good work.

Goat Herder

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Post by gm_al » Tue May 11, 2004 8:10 am

Thx for the feedback so far, Ive changed a few things in the manual and will keep improving it over time.

Some answers:
- K2 and signup isnt set yet. Yes we will require players of the INTERNET version to be Clan members in order to play. As soon as everything is set in stone I will add more details on how to signup for K2/WOK SP. For now this is beta.
- BP and instinct% when attacking: the factors are the difference in BP and also the instinct% of the attacker (not its difference in instinct% towards the defender)
- printing/viewing: this manual has been made in regards to our sales department here at work that needs something to show around. I am aware that it may not print out well or some will have to move borders to view it correctly. Sorry on that, but those small annoyances can be overcome easily if you fizzle around with it a bit. Im considering to convert it to a PDF too maybe, lmk if you would like this.
- 3024 turns are only 3 weeks in the default setup. I prefer not mentionning "hours", "weeks" etc. but rather talk of Turns and Steps to keep it flexible. Please note we are considering allowing restarts in the first 1/3 of a game, so this would be up to Turn 1008 to be precise. Restarts arent fully outlined, we may set it that a restart only happens at the next given cycle when activated.
- tables are just examples, not really reflecting game situations
- the default mobile map is 5x5 due to display limitations. This means 13 Players in a game by default. The internet version will handle up to 50 Players on a full 10x10 map, but this is also just the default setting. The maximum map size would be 20x20 with 200 Players.
- a cron job is a scripted command that the server executes by itself at a given time or intervall (ie. daily virus scan at 10:00). Ive added a short explanation.

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Post by Hannibal » Tue May 11, 2004 10:26 am

I see you probably only want 13 players for this iteration, in order to test the mobile-size balance. Count me in if it helps, but feel free to drop me if you've got more than you need and have to choose some to turn away.

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Post by gm_al » Tue May 11, 2004 2:24 pm

KAHUNA will be a 7x7 map with up to 25 players. That should pretty much cover all serious testers.

Im happy to report I believe we have debugged 95% of the new code, so Rune should soon post a signup link in here and set a deadline when to kickoff the new beta. I wont promise too much, but this one is meant to rock the place.... in fact there are so many additions and changes its hard for me to keep track of them all. The manual should cover pretty much all aspects, but we will answer your more specific questions in a new thread too once KAHUNA is running.

The manual has been updated (same link) and your suggestions have been taken into account. I also added some infos on flying/forced landing I had forgotten (cant take off and will be forced to land if your instinct drops under 20%)

I cross my fingers that with all the new code added we wont experience any major crashes that could force us to re-run the game. We gave the new version thousands of test turns, but you never know what happens in mass-testing. Please bare with us and always remember that this is still BETA.

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Post by Mullog » Tue May 11, 2004 10:43 pm

I think we are ready to setup the new game, but I don't have time tonight...
We will have to kill the old game, so say farewell to your old species and welcome your new ones!

There is a minor problem with the drawing of the game map, but I hope you will be able to read it properly. I am working on a solution, but let me know if the map is completely unusable (that would really kill the game! :)).

Good luck and enjoy the game!


Mullog
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