EVERGLADES JUST BANTER

News, discussions and gossip around WOK SPECIES.

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Dameon
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Post by Dameon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:22 am

Well, Ben's parrots certainly made a very colorful meal, at least. Just goes to show, you can run and you can hide but the white wolves are always one step ahead of you....<burp>

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Lowebb
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Post by Lowebb » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:01 am

Well it really does piss you off when you cant even see what happened, mind running me through it Nick?

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Post by Donut » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:32 pm

Hey X-Wing... Just outta curiosity, where were you when you "Passed On"

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Post by Validon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:32 pm

HA!!!! It seems that Temujin's chickens like to run and hide too. But I'll catch them. Here chicky, chicky,chicky...

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Post by Lowebb » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:41 pm

what do you mean "where was I when I passed on" that doesnt make any sense to me?

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Post by Donut » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:42 pm

What square were you in when Nick ate you?

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Post by Dameon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:48 pm

He could tell you, but it wouldn't mean a lot. I haven't RIPped two players in the same square since I started hunting other species. In any case, Ben, I had a lot more wolves than you did parrots. I killed about 100 parrots per round, so it took me three rounds to hunt, plus another two to change colors in between after you adapted. You didn't try to fight back like the other omnis I ate did, which I think was the smart move, and if I hadn't had so many specimens I wouldn't have even bothered.
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Post by Saladin » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:02 pm

How many specimens do you have Nick? :P
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Post by Lowebb » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:40 pm

Well I have come to realise you are steam rolling this game Nick and I was running out of plants so I had to move to get more, I came across 2 BS2 fields with 6plants in each of them which annoyed me, and then I had to go home (and leave my internet connection)

I decided I couldnt win a fight with you Dameon and running away only would have bought time, so I decided to adapt hoping you would give up and go after someone else, I knew a few players in the surrounding provinces (Tejumni)

Anyway I had about 300(?) when Dameon attacked and I'm guessing DAmeon has about 600-700 working on how many he killed each turn, just a pity couldnt take a wee bite

Oh and I was around g8 or f8 when he attacked :D

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Post by Validon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:34 pm

Hey, I'm close to there. Maybe I'll take a peek.

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Post by Dameon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:58 pm

I've actually decided to only hunt players with BS 2 from now on out, simply because hunting BS 1 species doesn't really get me anything. I would have gone carnivore long ago had it been worth it, but since it's not, my focus is on running through the 4-5 squares full of BS 2 plants that I have found after much scouting. Any BS 2 species (omni or otherwise) who comes close to that range, I am going to hunt down and eat, it's that simple. I have over 900 specimens, for the record, and I think I am going to top out at about 1000; I have been letting my fertility drop lately since I want to make sure I don't overhunt the BS 2 squares in my range, which I am coming close to doing. I have about 8-10 squares I regularly travel through, with 3 legs I am able to move at a good clip and keep myself saturated.
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Post by Saladin » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:56 pm

Here's an idea!

Instead of just using BS * specimens eaten for the saturation gain when it comes to eating other species, do something like.

(Saturation / total number of specimens) * number of specimens eaten.

So if i have a saturation of 1200 and have 300 specimens. And the Nick comes along and eats 40 of my specimens he would get.

(1200 / 300) * 40 = 120 saturation.

What do you think?
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Post by Dameon » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:23 pm

The current formula, as I understand it, is actually (# specimens * BS * 5). So if I ate 40 of your penguins, I'd get about 400 saturation. That's not bad, but when you consider I get about 2500 from one round of hunting plant, and I require about 700 a step, there's a heck of a lot more plants, an infiinte resource, then there is BS 2 species, species have defense, it just doesn't add up, especially as I can't exactly hunt species for 8 hours a day while I sleep, whereas I can pretty easily hunt plants during that time.

There's a lot of problems with carnivore vs omnivore. There's as many possible solutions, including reducing the amount of saturation needed for carnivores, instituting a "hibernate" function that would allow species to operate on less food when a player is sleeping, increasing hunting skills and/or decreasing movement cost for carnivores....it's a potentially long list, and most likely it would require a combination of several different fixes to make carnivore a viable alternative.
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Post by korexus » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:37 pm

One more time, just for people who are denser than average.

T h e r e . i s . n o t . a n . o v e r a b u n d a n c e . o f . p l a n t s...

In the current game there is. This is due to the map having only 60% of the players it was designed to hold. Species beta IV will be played on an 8X8 grid. Please please please please stop making statements about whether players need to go omni/carni vore until we've actually run it in a balanced test!

Of course, this is not necessarily true, which is why we are testing (and feedback is appreciated!) but I strongly suspect that when every other square is inhabited, 4 in 7 uninhabbited squares have BS 2+ plants and almost the same number of uninhabbited squares are water tiles, players will find it far harder to use the "steamrolling" strategy that works so well currently.

Oh and by the way, I notice that Validon has made it to Body size 3. Hopefully he'll leave my square and go eat Nick pretty soon. 900+ BS 2 specimen that can't fight back has to count for a fair amount of saturation.


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Post by Donut » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:17 pm

Viva la revolucion!!!
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Post by Validon » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:14 am

No worries korexus. I had a taste of jaguar and didn't like it. So I'm moving on to find some different species to eat. Maybe I'll go find those last two blue chickens and finish them off.

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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:33 am

Yeah I know that BS 3 could be a potential problem, but considering that in the 20+ squares I have explored I have come across a grand total of zero BS 3 plants, I didn't really feel that I could even come close to feeding my current number of specimens if I went for it. And 900 BS 2 specimens wouldn't count as that much saturation to a BS 3 hunter, trust me. BS 1 specimens do nothing for me. Heck, BS 2 specimens do nothing for me, I've only hunted to protect my range so far. The reason to hunt another player is to make sure you have the top score, not to gain saturation- at least currently.

If I had half my current number of specimens I might go for BS 3, but I'd also have about half my current score too, so that's not the strategy I chose. I do think that a lower BS size not being able to fight back is weak; if this reflected reality at all, it could happen. Wolves are considerably smaller than say, deer, but that doesn't stop them from hunting them. Now granted, they can't exactly hunt elephants, but that'd be more than one BS higher I'd imagine. There should be a penalty for hunting a higher BS than you, but I still think it should be allowed.

Finally, to fully develop a strategy, there needs to be a set number of turns, and this is true in a beta as well. My strategy is peaking now, and I'll probably hold the top score till turn 2000 or so, but after that I am sure I will drop off some. I don't know when Rune is coming back from vacation, but I still think a set end turn for this beta would be nice. Al?
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Post by Underdog » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:05 am

Thats because I have been hiding all the BS3 plants I have found 4 of those squares and 2 of them are right next to each other. I found that rather interesting. even thought about trying for BS3 when I found those.
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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:36 am

Well, you gotta play the hand you were dealt. I found enough BS 2 squares to support a large pack, but nothing to support a BS 3 species. So, I adapted to the environment. That's what it's all about, really. 8)
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Post by gm_al » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:39 am

I like what I read ! :P

Seen that we are not really running a balanced beta at the moment the results are still "good". What happens is that players adapt to the situation of more plants being available as usual, and thats ok.

Rune is still a week away, and my time schedule for next week is also quite crowded. Im still taking notes on everything, so beta 4 should be quite a challenge. Until then we can all keep playing around and test more.

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