EVERGLADES: bugs and suggestions

News, discussions and gossip around WOK SPECIES.

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Dameon
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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:38 pm

There needs to be some kind of "Patrol" reaction (or skill) in this game. I have been sitting in a square where I FINALLY found some BS 2 plants, and overnight while I was asleep, Korexus moved in and started hunting them like mad. Now that I am awake, I can react by hunting him a lot and eating him until he either leaves or dies, but I lost a lot of potential plant by him moving in. Also, my "react" behavior is on, and even though he has been spying on me my species does nothing. I don't like losing instinct, and I consider this an attack; I wish my species would have "reacted" to it!

So two issues- spying is a form of attacking and should be considered as such by your species, and if the whole point of omnivore is to be able to guard squares that have lots of good plant from other species, there needs to be some sort of "patrol" or "guard" ability. Even if I do drive Kor off now, he's eaten a large amount of the green plants and they will not refill to 5000 again next round, which is something I have been very careful to have done. There is no way for me to guard those plants if he doesn't attack my species, and I think there needs to be if at all possible.
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Post by Lowebb » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:44 pm

Too many ppl seem to be willing to sit in the same square for too long, myself included, I have not had to move as plants have been a plenty for me but others are struggling, I'm glad I'm no where near korexus. However if you are running out of plants, you have to move simple as that, yeah korexus took a lot of your plants while you were asleep but he has paid for it now in lost specimens and you must move on, I think ppl are expecting enough plants in 1 square to supply them throughout the game, thats not the way it should work

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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:04 pm

Ben, I JUST moved into this square. I have already cleaned out 4 different squares of BS1 plant, and for the first time in the game I have BS2 plant. I didn't plan to stay here forever, but it would have been nice not to have to move another 4-5 squares just in hopes of finding another source of BS2 plant just yet.

Oh well, I am betting Kor has learned his lesson.
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Post by korexus » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:44 pm

Nick, I'd been through 4 or 5 squares without finding anything to eat. There was no way I was going to leave 5000 BS2 plants alone.

As I said to Sal yesterday when he came to attack me, I *expect* to die. I exploited a hole in the rules in order to get it changed. The process of getting it changed is what killed my species. (Although I took out a good portion of plants on the map in the process. :D)

So there is no "lesson" for me to learn. Except perhaps that it can set you up badly if the first few spy orders all fail. 4% loss per time. Ouch!


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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:41 pm

I don't know Kor, you THOUGHT there was a hole, but what did the dev team do to fix it really? Nothing, except possibly make green plants BS2, which was more in response to other concerns. Your species died out because it grew too quickly; the flaw was in your strategy.
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Post by Allister Fiend » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:52 pm

And those dangnabbit hungry wolves....
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

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Post by Allister Fiend » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:53 pm

dangnabbit sensor...
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

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Post by Allister Fiend » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:54 pm

Quit it, d a m m i t !
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

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Post by Allister Fiend » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:54 pm

Aha, fooled it this time, for now... :lol:
Oh no!!! I'm out of those important papers.......

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Post by Donut » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:00 pm

Actually, Korexus did exploit a hole and did it quite well. He managed to get his species to 1000+ specimen without feeding them (If I understood him correctly). This was fixed by the dev team by placing the 1% fertility loss when you fail to feed your species on a step. :lol:

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Post by Dameon » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:40 pm

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. They also put in stiffer penalties for not feeding too- still, it seems there are better ways to make a point than sacrificing your species. :P
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Post by korexus » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:36 pm

No Nick. I had to make the point because no one had believed me while the game was in developement. However after the point was made and the rules changed my species simply wasn't viable. Of course I stubbornly tried to keep it going. That's fun, but when it became obvious that it would die eventually, I figured I'd annoy the first Omnivore I found until he killed me off himself thus speeding up the process..

The first Omnivore I found however was Sal. He ran away. You obliged and killed me. Now I have 5000 plants, a managable number of specimen and maxed out instinct again. Cheers, I owe you one! :wink:


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Post by Hannibal » Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:29 am

Seems to me you can't assume someone is "playing badly" when they may not have the objectives you take for granted.

If this game is to go mobile-global, we might find that 99.9% of players mainly want to enjoy the cut'n'thrust, rather than try to sit passive to win, unlike us WOK-addicts.

Great for people like X and Y, the mobile herd will self-destruct and the pro's will tend to win. But I'm surprised if that's what this is all about. Otherwise it will be restricted, eventually, to the 50 or so WOK-addicts, not what was intended?

Me, for example, I find no appeal in a game/strategy that means I HOPE nothing will happen for days on end, I actually hope to have no excitement. So I played to have turns I actually looked forward to reading, even though that's not a winning strategy. For the great public out there, it's about enjoying the excitement, not about being the species where nothing happens till you end up winning.....

Dev team should think about this if you want non-addicts, in their millions, to enjoy and want to play again. Otherwise I can see the shape of the calls-curve..... But I might be wrong.
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Post by Dameon » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:00 am

Uh, you're welcome Kor, I guess. I can't imagine why Sal ran AWAY from you, how bizzare is that? If it's any consolation, I still have 5000 plants (your instinct must have been shot from the crappy hunting numbers you were getting), maxed instinct, and a managable herd too. You'll have to come to dinner again sometime! :D
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Post by Saladin » Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:31 am

Because it would have taken me 30 straight turns to finally rip him and he was spying me and lowering my instinct 2% every 2 turns...plus i wasn't getting any real saturation from it...so it wasn't worth it. :D
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Post by Saladin » Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:38 am

One little 'bug' for you Chris.

When you're looking at all your events and find a message and want to reply to it, it doesn't work...go fix it. :D
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Post by korexus » Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:45 am

Sal, that "bug" is known and a bit annoying to fix.

It won't reply because the reply box isn't in that window.
If we put the reply box in that window as well, it would then redirect you to the main page not the events page after sending the message.
That could be fixed by passing some variable saying to return to the events window, not the main screen, but Rune says that would be too messy and he's in charge of that sort of thing.

Hopefully, Hamster can come up with a nice solution and implement it while Rune's not looking! :wink:

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Post by gm_al » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:47 am

Imho the framework of the game is set.

The next beta (whenever we start it) will try to give the game a little more dynamics and thus making it more enjoyable for every type of player:
* start with 500 plants
* OMNIVORE getting cheaper (but CARNIOVRE still stay a bit more expensive)
* mutations cost 45/45/60/60 to start with
* new skills get introduced that will look to increase interaction
* etc.

Possibly we will play it on 8x8 with 30 players. It would be interesting to test it with "teams" that try to cooperate for victory.

More to come, and more to do.

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Post by Underdog » Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:50 am

OK quick question.

Why is it that every once in awhile I get a message that my orders won't go through. It tells me I have to suply a game ID. now when I go back and do it again it takes them just fine. I am doing nothing different so why not just accept them the first time? If someone isn't paying attention they would screw up their orders.
I already did that once and had to spend another 10 minutes getting them back in the right order. with the right orders inserted in where I wanted them.
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Post by Undertaker » Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:58 pm

Dameon wrote:There needs to be some kind of "Patrol" reaction (or skill) in this game. I have been sitting in a square where I FINALLY found some BS 2 plants, and overnight while I was asleep, Korexus moved in and started hunting them like mad. Now that I am awake, I can react by hunting him a lot and eating him until he either leaves or dies, but I lost a lot of potential plant by him moving in. Also, my "react" behavior is on, and even though he has been spying on me my species does nothing. I don't like losing instinct, and I consider this an attack; I wish my species would have "reacted" to it!

So two issues- spying is a form of attacking and should be considered as such by your species, and if the whole point of omnivore is to be able to guard squares that have lots of good plant from other species, there needs to be some sort of "patrol" or "guard" ability. Even if I do drive Kor off now, he's eaten a large amount of the green plants and they will not refill to 5000 again next round, which is something I have been very careful to have done. There is no way for me to guard those plants if he doesn't attack my species, and I think there needs to be if at all possible.


I don't quite agree on the spying. I think spying should be changed to "stalk". There is no way to defend against it, but there should be a chance to catch the "stalker", which you would gain Instinct and the stalker would lose it. Similar to WOK 4 & 5.

Think about it. A cheetah hides in the grass a watches a herd of gazelle. It is effectively spying. If one of the gazelle notices the cheetah, then the herd would flee. Although in this game we would only be alerted.
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