EVERGLADES: bugs and suggestions

News, discussions and gossip around WOK SPECIES.

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Hamster
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Post by Hamster » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:21 am

Allister Fiend wrote:Could not execute query.
Error: Duplicate entry '2147483647' for key 1
Same here - reported it this morning in another thread. Seems that AutoIncrement field (ID probably) went to max value.
Allister Fiend wrote: I am getting the same thing here, although I won't starve yet since I have plenty of saturation.

I don't. Just went to 0 :cry:
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Post by Mullog » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:35 am

Somehow the order counter jumped to the max possible value of about 20billion!!!! You guys have not been that active playing! :D
I did some changes to the code that stores the orders and I renumbered the existing orders so that they get more realistic numbers around 8000.
The problem should be fixed now and storing orders is working again.

GH: There is no problem with the login as far as I know. Did you by any chance change your password? Try to delete cookies from your browsers cache (in Internet Explorer select Tools -> Internet Options and click on Delete Cookies). That should help.



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Post by gm_al » Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:45 am

Let me try to make a few more things clear:
* movement costs will be reduced soon, we all can see that this will be good for the game
* imho we can/should keep the spy instinct% loss when spying on an empty square then - after all I could walk right into it with lower movement costs. Hint: if you know the color of the plant you also know its BS....
* the game should require you to login 1-2 times a day. An average OQ should cover your orders for 12-24 hours - of course this can vary a lot depending on the nature of the orders. We will not have anything like a "vacation mode" - it would be a mess to handle in the middle of a fight.
* As I said earlier, Im leaning towards getting saturation lower too. But be prepared that failing on feeding your species will have harsh effects then.

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Post by Underdog » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:18 am

gm_al wrote: * As I said earlier, Im leaning towards getting saturation lower too. But be prepared that failing on feeding your species will have harsh effects then.
Al, Is it possible to make it a higher loss for herbivores than omni/carnivores? that would seem to make sense since herbivores wouldn't eat their dead like omni/carnivores will do sometimes. Don't know how difficult that would be to code but I think it would make sense. it would also make people more likely to become omnivore once they get to BS2. to try to limit those losses.
gm_al wrote: * imho we can/should keep the spy instinct% loss when spying on an empty square then - after all I could walk right into it with lower movement costs. Hint: if you know the color of the plant you also know its BS....
so does that mean those gray plants are ALWAYS bigger than size 1? at least if I remember right that was the color of the size 3 plants I ran into earlier.

I suppose that it also means that ALL white, green yellow and red plants are size 1?

*edited to change color of size 3 plants since I looked back and realized I put in the wrong color*
Last edited by Underdog on Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by korexus » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:33 am

Well, I'm still finding feeding manageble. admittedly I'm BS 1, but I'm going for the mutation this turn. (No guarentee I'll get it of course... :( ) Even if I do get it though, my saturation drop should be managable. And I am still feeding on BS 1 plants. I know I have a huge advantage in that I helped design the game, so I have a good idea of what to do when. However, eventually, everyone will have their own ideas on that. And believe me, it is possible to keep everything under control. In fact, if anything, I'd say the saturation drop/hunger deaths were already too light on players. I'm currently missing more than half of my steps when it comes to saturation, and I'm 250 points clear of everyone who's working desperately to keep feeding...*
Underdog wrote: so does that mean those red plants are ALWAYS bigger than size 1? at least if I remember right that was the color of the size 3 plants I ran into earlier.
It means something like that. I think I've seen some BS 1 Red plants though. If you need a clue, look somewhere else where these colours come up in WoK. :wink:

*Yes, I'm exploiting what I see as a "bug" in the calculations, but no-one on the dev team would believe me that it was a bug, instead apparently it's a "viable-strategy" because feeding is a "low-priority". I think those were the words. However, until the penalties for not having enough food are increased in some way, I am 100% against anything that makes keeping saturation up any easier. It simply isn't necessary!
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Post by Hamster » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:46 am

I had a strange experience in the game during this weekend - I managed to refresh the page just at the time the cycle begun, which resulted in silly numbers on the page because the turn ins't synchronized. Some numbers nad data were from previous turn and some from the next one.

Shouldn't it be done so that a turn change code beguns after all previous page requests are finished and all further requests have a small delay until code ends?
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Post by Lowebb » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:52 am

I just had a fetility bug there. My fertility was a 5% before the last cycle and I got the new data saying my fertility dropped 2% to 1%, so there is 3% which is unaccounted for.

It then goes on to say my fertility drops 5% to 1%, whats that about????

2 fertility drops in 1 cycle?

X-Wing

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Post by korexus » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:15 am

Sounds like it's not being reported very clearly. However, can I ask if you mutated this turn? And if you did, was it in Body Size? Dameon mentioned above that he lost 5% fertility when he went to BS 2.


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Post by Saladin » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:50 am

I think feeding would be the #1 priority for a species, as it is in real life!

Not eating enough should also lower a species attack and defence, because the species would get weaker due to lack of food.

I also agree that omnivores should have a lower number of dying specimens as they can eat their own species.
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Post by gm_al » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:56 am

Ok now....

* main page has seen some updates and should be more compact to read now (and even faster to load) :P
* yes, X-Wing did mutate into BS2.... as you have witnessed, this has an effect on your fertility :roll: (bigger buggers dont breed at the rate of smaller critters after all)

Changes to come as soon as today:
* reduced movement costs ! :P
* reduced saturation needs - but dare to miss feeding your species then.... :twisted:
* initial plants 500 per square, maximum capped at 5000

@hamster: good point, plz mail Rune about it.

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Post by Egbert » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:50 pm

As for the "vacation" mode, that could be "hibernation" as someone suggested. You can basically "bury" yourself so you are undetectable, use very little saturation, but can't gain any skill points or bank any turns.
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Post by Dameon » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:59 pm

If there is a direct correlation between plant color and BS I haven't noticed it yet- has anybody? I'd be interested in knowing.
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Post by Lowebb » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:09 pm

I've just went up a BS and I know can no longer eat a certain colour of plant, if that helps

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Post by Dameon » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:07 pm

I think the color of plant you cannot eat when you go up in BS is random, as I cannot eat white ones and I am pretty sure I have heard others with BS2 have different diet restrictions. I also have yet to have anybody respond to my query as to if there are any BS2 plants out there at all. In any case, if saturation requirments and movement are indeed going down as I suggested, I think that will help solve the problems that folks are having feeding themselves.

I am still opposed to instinct loss when you spy on empty squares, though. Considering it takes four rounds to spy, you are losing 1% instinct there, and another 4% when you don't find anything. That means 5% instinct loss total, which takes another four rounds to get back. Way too expensive- I know for one I am going to avoid using spying, it takes me long enough to keep my instinct high as it is without losing some unnessecarily.

And BTW- I am eating red plants now, they are size one. I have also seen white plants, yellow plants, and green plants at size one. I would imagine there would be some kind of correlation between colors and the diamond color scheme, of course, which COULD mean that white/yellow/red/green are size one, blue are 2, grey are 3, and black are 4. I have heard of up to BS 4 plants being found so that's where I base those calculations; I do stick to the fact that I don't believe anybody has found any actual BS2 size plants in Everglades. If that correlation is correct, I would change it so it was just white/yellow/red that are size 1, green and blue for 2, and then grey and black for 3 and 4, respectively. There seems to be an overabundance of BS 1 plants when the BS 2 mutation really isn't THAT unusual to see within the first 5-6 cycles.

On a related note I would also imagine that means that white plants would ALWAYS be the first to not be edible by BS2 species, however, I am pretty sure I heard somebody (UD?) mention that it was another color of plant that went inedible when his BS went up, although I could be mistaken.

Oh, and I also think that the dev team should really stop using the "private" chatrooms. I would love to chat about some things I have noticed and get actual real time feedback, and it's frustrating not to. Pile on the fact that we have no access to a manual, and I'm getting moderately irritated with this beta testing.
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Post by korexus » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:19 pm

Dameon, you're plant guessing is pretty much spot on. Currently green plants are size 1. I'm making a case for them to be size 2 though.

Also, we did just uncover a slight bug that cause disproportionate size 1 plants to be placed on the map. (Well, we wanted disproportionate, just not as much as it turned out to be...) So that will be having some influence on the problem here.

Regardless of that, now that penatlies for missing feeding are higher (at least fro high fertility critters like me) the reduced saturation needs are ok, so hopefully that will help a bit...

As for chat rooms, some of the stuff we still have to do in private. Well, unless we release the manual so you can see all the formulae and that would take away the fun!
I have been trying to sit in the public chat room where possible too though so people can ask questions. Also shouting up on MSN (korexus@hotmail.com) has got some people a bit of help. Beware that sometimes that-evil-programme crashes my computer though, so the answer can be a while in coming...

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Post by gm_al » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:23 pm

We have put quite a few changes into live testing today, more are being evaluated as we speak. A word of praise or some THANK YOU would be better then any "mild irritations" you have.... after all we work as hard as we can.

And we are also quite often in the default chat room, so join us there - ohhh, we never saw you actually in the chat, Nick. :roll:

We still will be using our private areas to discuss changes and updates, thank you. But rest assured we talk to the players A LOT.

PS: the amount of BS1 plants in Everglades is partly related to the fact that SOME people kept refreshing the page that picked your starting square/species. We give everyone a BS1 plant to start with, so refreshing this until you got "your" square didnt help putting BS2+ plants in the jungle....

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Post by Dameon » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:15 pm

Everytime I see "4 people now in chat" I then actually try to look at the chat rooms and there is nobody there. What do you want me to do, hang around and hope you grace me with your presence? If I see anybody in default chat when I have time to chat I will stop by, but it has not happened yet.
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Post by Allister Fiend » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:42 pm

I noticed that you can't put orders in "before 32"

It only goes to 31 in the drop-down list.

Is that gonna change too?

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Post by Egbert » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:58 pm

gm_al wrote:PS: the amount of BS1 plants in Everglades is partly related to the fact that SOME people kept refreshing the page that picked your starting square/species. We give everyone a BS1 plant to start with, so refreshing this until you got "your" square didnt help putting BS2+ plants in the jungle....
Refreshing the page --- didn't think of doing that!

Hey, is it possible to have more than 1 type of plant in a square? Or is coding something like that not possible? It would be nice to have different colors and sizes in squares.
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Post by Donut » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:09 pm

I find it pretty annoying that I have to login to the game every 6 - 8 hours to avoid starving.
Hmmmm.... Let me think...
Egbert wrote:Can we run these turns every 10 minutes?
Saladin wrote:Al, i'm not sure if somebody asked before, but could we run the turns every 10 minutes?
Smashface wrote:hey al? is 10- minutes alright?
Allister Fiend wrote:Ok, 10 minutes it is then.
Dameon wrote:I hope so I am getting pretty bored with 15 minute turns, it makes the game move far too sloooow.
:wink: :wink: :wink: :twisted:

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