Is it just me............

Everything non-WOK related should go in here.

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Egbert
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Is it just me............

Post by Egbert » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:51 pm

............ or is all the talk about "paysites" and "spamsites" getting annoying to other people as well?

I am getting the impression that certain people care less and less about WOK, and more and more about just getting a paychain going (or whatever you call it). Nearly every time that I see what new messages are posted, most of the new messages are about pay-to-do-something sites, and not about WOK.

"Is anybody there? Does anybody care?"
---John Adams, "1776"

:cry:
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Re: Is it just me............

Post by Undertaker » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:00 pm

Egbert wrote:............ or is all the talk about "paysites" and "spamsites" getting annoying to other people as well?

I am getting the impression that certain people care less and less about WOK, and more and more about just getting a paychain going (or whatever you call it). Nearly every time that I see what new messages are posted, most of the new messages are about pay-to-do-something sites, and not about WOK.

"Is anybody there? Does anybody care?"
---John Adams, "1776"

:cry:
Agreed!

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Post by Brykovian » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:07 pm

*nods* :?

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Post by Raw » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:41 pm

Right on Eg!

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Re: Is it just me............

Post by ThinKing » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:03 pm

Egbert wrote:............ or is all the talk about "paysites" and "spamsites" getting annoying to other people as well?

I agree 100% !



TK

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Post by korexus » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:04 pm

Agreed, although it's not so hard to just ignore the posts. You know you're not missing anything after all...


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Post by gm_al » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:18 pm

I agree. :P

Just skip it if you dont want to hear about it. But please understand that people have some other interests too beside WOK. Right now the paid-to stuff is high on the agenda, but this can change quickly.

Also Im really looking to get some steady flow of money with this - which would be also used to pay for the server bills and other stuff that keeps WOK running.

And Im not spamming - there are no popups (and never will be), no fly-ins or other stuff. Just one meager banner and a section of the boards you can easily omit.

I will call for your XMas donations towards WOK next week, lets see who is serious in helping WOK in here.

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Post by SmashFace » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:40 pm

alright eg, lets see some donations. these paysites are on high priority so the members here won't have to donate in the future, this is beneficial to the community. ignore the posts in teh supported programs page... not hard at all!
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Post by Raw » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:57 pm

It's not fast unless its got a fart can.

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Post by Dameon » Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:06 pm

I am sorry Al, but I agree that this is getting out of hand. Especially when I see you either declining to work on WOK 6 or not communicating with anybody else about it if you are, in favor of your latest "get-rich-quick" scheme. Your costs are not that high in the grand scheme of things, about $20 a month, and obviously this annoying as all hell pay-schemes cannot be making you much towards that since from what I can see all the server fees are coming directly from the donated money and NOT from these paysites. What good is all this spam garbage doing if it is not even making money for Kaomaris?

All this spam and paysite crap IS distracting the WOK community from our overall mission, I think. Back when WOK 5 was in development I remember you being an entirely different person than now, when WOK 6 is in development. It really does seem like your focus has changed. I am willing to donate some good money towards WOK this Xmas, but only if you agree to cut all this really f*ing annoying spam crap that you are littering the boards with! If you don't agree to that then what the heck is the point of donations?
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Post by Lord Fredo » Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:35 pm

Even though I can agree it is easy enough to ignore the threads concerning payprograms it is never the less sad to see that about 99% of the posts lateley have been about moneyprograms as opposed to WOK stuff. Come on people where did all the good old banter go?
Anyone up for a flamer? :wink:
In short Egbert, no it's not just you.

PS Allister and Massie, you guys suck in GM Toby's Group 1! :flamer: DS

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Post by SmashFace » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:22 pm

alright, well i guess we can just have the mod delete this vampires thread and the KOC thread they are also distracting to WOK.
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Post by Raw » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:35 pm

Sounds Good to me :)

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Post by Allister Fiend » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:04 pm

Lord Fredo wrote:PS Allister and Massie, you guys suck in GM Toby's Group 1! :flamer: DS
You'll see how much we suck when turn 17 rolls around. :?

The only thing that will suck is how bad your troops fall to mine in one single turn. :shock:

I'm not kidding either, just giving you a fair warning. :wink:

Finally, someone starts talking trash again..... I love it!!

Allister

P.S. Hey Fredo... 2 words..."SUCK IT" :lol:


You too Funta!!

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Post by gm_al » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:37 pm

I will not even try to explain things to Nick as he has obviously no clue on them. If those posts are 'destracting' you from your 'mission' (?) then just IGNORE them.

If many posts lately have not been around WOK whose fault is it ? Mine ?

And please keep your money for you. I would hate to see you referring to your donation every time you come to these boards and how cool you are and what great job you do blablabla.... and dont start that 'if you do this now, AND ONLY IF YOU DO IT, then I will do that' kind of tone. Do as you wish !

I am currently not touching WOK6 code, simply because I have absolutely no interest in doing so. My work in the office gives me enough time in front of PCs and technical meetings to not really looking forward to continue things at home. Hey, I happen to have something like a social life too. Just because master Nick has two spare weeks at hands doesnt mean Al jumps back to coding right away.

Ive been using hundreds of my hours for WOK, and after some 4 1/2 years I feel the need to do some different things too. Dont push me, my lust for coding will come back soon enough and then it will all go very quick.

I have been trying to get rid of donations, because of several aspects:
- i dont like begging
- its always the same people that donate (and not necessarily the richest)
- I would prefer a way to get the server costs paid regularly with some kind of income

So if you have the solution to this lmk. Maybe you want to run the site; I would be happy to have a few hands helping me. LOL, look at the feedback I get from members - NOTHING.

Where are the illustrators Ive been looking for ?
Who helps promoting this community ?
Newsletter ? New waitlists ?
Ive tried to start a banner contest - no one cares.
Who will help Rune and me coding KaoBase V2 ? Or trying to put up a WOK4 Online version ? Nobody ?

Maybe I did care too much about all this. Im getting tired to hear all this criticism - all you get in here is FREE and I am not your slave. If something annoys you try to find an alternative.

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Post by Dameon » Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:59 pm

Yes, I understand you are burned out on WOK 6 coding, and yes, I know that when you are ready to go again on it it'll go very fast. Still, there are other things that other people like me CAN do with regards to WOK 6 that maybe doesn't involve coding if you want to take ten minutes and figure it out and talk about it! BUT, we are straying from the point. The point is all this spam that you have filled the boards with.

Really, what have all these spam and paysites done for you?? NOTHING, at least, unless are you neglecting to mention the income that is coming in on the server payment page. Why waste your time when they do no good for Kaomaris? You have tried these programs ever since I have known you and it doesn't seem to me like they have had any real effect on helping you pay the costs, unless you are keeping it a great secret. OK, yes, money is needed, but this doesn't seem to be the way to get it!

In any case- donating money has ZERO to do with how cool you are and how great a job you are doing blablabla.....contributions to Kaomaris come in many more ways than that, and we have ALL made them to varying degress. I am only not donating because it is very irritating to see all this spam and not see any money that is made from it, if it exists, go towards Kaomaris anyway!
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Post by gm_al » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:50 pm

Well I said you shouldnt talk about things you dont know.

These 'useless' programs have seen me built downlines of over 600 people in it. I have invested much effort and a good degree of time and money to get there.

I didnt break even for now, but I am on the best way to do so. I have constant daily earnings and payouts from several sites, and those are sites that will not just dissapear tomorrow.

Once I break even I will donate parts of what I earn towards keeping the server running - this was after all my initial motivation in all of this. The oldies in here might remember that I had some advertisers showing banners etc. a few years ago, but revenue from this was scarce and went down month after month.

Of course GMs and Clan Heads are donating their TIME and effort into this, I never neglected that and I am thankful for everyone involved. But it still takes cold hard CASH to keep the site alive.

So if you know a way of not having to beg to people that are already investing personal effort to keep the dream alive Id like to hear about it. I am not that type of guy that likes to be dependant on someone's donations. We are way too small to be interesting to advertisers. Our community is not the most active one, which is also due to the fact that the games are not browser-based and require time and brainpower to play. A friend of mine recently thought about joining, but told me he looks for more people and action in games he plays.

Im just getting tired of having to ASK people and try to MOTIVATE them to do things. I am very tempted to leave the site alone and just step back and see what will happen. Will it die quickly or slowly ?

If your overall feelings is really that we should get rid of all annoying get-paid stuff then I will, again, respect that decision. No more banners, no more posts, no hints or advices, nothing. I can do that within minutes. But dont come whining when the site has to be shut down due to lack of funds.

If I look at my personal situation I have no clue if I will be able to maintain my degree of involvment in all of this. I am not your maiden and other game sites have teams of people that look after all the things I do.

I always was trying to make the site more professional with every year that has passed. But we are at some crossings now, and it is time to decide if we want to make this into something professional, maintained by a TEAM, or if we step back to square one and keep this as the 'personal home page' type amusement site, hosted on some popup-driven free webspace and a few hotmail accounts.

Guess you can tell when I had a bad day.

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Post by Bjorn » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:27 am

Gee......I wonder how I can tell that Nick must be back in town? If there is one thing that he is really good at it's pushing our founder's buttons. When I saw Eg's opening post this morning I had a good hunch it would lead to this. More painful to me than the plugs for the paysites is to see Nick and Al start barking at each other.

Look, if you don't like where a thread is going or what it is discussing, ignore it. It really is quite easy once you get the hang of it.

If there is something you want to discuss about WOK, then start a thread on it and follow it. If you can't think of anything WOK related that deserves a thread, why complain about what other people are discussing? I drop by the KoC thread every couple of days and click on the links when I have the time, but I have no intention of getting involved in it. I'm glad some of the guys are having fun with it.

Al, I go back to the day when GMs had to have your ad links on our pages so you could get some money for them. I remember badgering the players to click on the stinking ads a couple of times a week so we could get some cash to the kitty. It would work for a couple of weeks, but that was it. Man, am I glad that went away.

Most of the other internet game sites where I am a member have an annual donation drive. Sort of like the televised fund raisers the public radio and television stations have in the USA. My 2 cents is that we just have an official 2 to 4 week period once a year where we ask those interested in supporting WOK to contribute something. Sure, we will take donations any time, but there should be an official fund drive with some modest goal that all those interested can contribute to. I can't speak for the rest of the group, but I know that would work for me. I tried to contribute once using paypal but it didn't work, so I gave up. If there was some sort of specific goal as part of a fund drive, perhaps a years worth of server fees, I would be more inclined to keep trying.

I think it is pretty obvious from your posts, Al, that you are taking a break from coding for awhile. I not only approve, I believe it is necessary. If playing some on-line games is what you want to promote, great. If trying to set up some sort of internet income generating stream is your current hobby, fine. I am sure you will let us know when you are ready to return to working on WOK6 or WOK MW, or whatever. At some time most of us will take a break from WOK. Some will come back, most won't. That's life.

(Bjorn now steps down off of the soap box and heads off to add a chapter or two to the aMAZEing story.)

Oh, yea. Allister and Fredo, why don't you two losers take it over to the GM Toby thread. I left a note there for ya. :lol:
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Post by Egbert » Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:49 pm

:peek:

Wow, that question was a bit more loaded than I thought it was going to be.

Look, I know the threads can be ignored --- I do ignore them. I was just wondering if anyone really cared about WOK anymore --- that was my real question. Judging from the posts, it just seemed that community members were going on to do other things --- paysites, other internet games, etc. The interest in WOK appeared to be waning --- Calidus leaving, Duke too busy, not many new games opening, not many games running.

It is good to see that I may have been wrong. Judging from Al's other thread related to this one ("An Important Announcement"), it seems that there are still dedicated members out there. Al wants to turn this into a major business --- I hope it happens (although I don't see it happening). I will still be here GM'ing when I have time (although I certainly don't want to get paid to GM, as Al suggests in his other thread). I will refrain from further commenting, since it will only be looked at as pessimistic; suffice it to say, however, that I see our close-knit community continuing to be close-knit --- and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Again, sorry to wake everybody up. :wavey:
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Post by gm_al » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:59 pm

I think we needed that wake-up.

Im not trying to move WOK into a multi-million dollar business (gimme another year lol), but rather ensure that its not dying off because just one or two guys handling it lose interest or are busy in RL.

The only way to make things better is to have dedicated teams running the show. PROGRESS is what Im seeking, up to us to decide what we feel this is for WOK.

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