Those who think the Iraq war was a good thing look away now.

Everything non-WOK related should go in here.

Moderators: Duke, trewqh, korexus, Egbert

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:33 am

Smashie, I am not part of a union. In fact, I don't know if you picked up on this, but I am not going to be working in the public schools after this year because of Bush's NCLB act. I really don't have a huge problem with how he runs the economy, and while I am not a fan of his foreign policy, I can live with it. If YOU voted for Bush, what that tells me is that you side with the Christian fundamentalists who believe that the Bible should have some say in how we run our government. It means you are against separation of church and state, and you are for discriminating against gays. That's what YOUR vote for Bush tells me, Smashie. Note I don't hate Republicans in general, I could see myself voting for a McCain or a Guliani. I just hate socially conservative Republians, as I am anti-bigotry and they are PRO-bigotry, something I have no sympathy for.

Yours too, Donut, sorry to say. You can't have part of the package without the full one. I am glad more than ever that I live in liberal California, where most people do our best to ignore Bush exists. Those of us that live here enjoy many more social liberties than Bush likes, and there's not a dangnabbit thing he can do about it. I hate the man. The sooner he is out of office, the better it will be for minorities and those of us in the ACLU.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Donut
Warlord
Warlord
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Brew Town, WI; USA - BoV
Contact:

Post by Donut » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:50 am

You're right... you can't have just one part of the package. But, that doesn't mean you necessarily agree with everything he does. That's a pretty big generalization. I weighed what I thought was important and decided :P

No child left behind is a great concept... but it's horrible for the country. Lowering the standards to make sure every jerk-off who doesn't care is able to slide through school is crap. I in no way worked hard to get through High School... but I at least made an effort.

Donut
The scars remind us that the past is real.

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:20 am

Like I said, I voted against Bush because of his social policies. His pro-bigotry view on gays, his meddling education garbage, his advocation of combining church and state. Those things all have the chance to affect me or my family directly. Is the nation's debt going to effect me personally? No. Is Iraq going to? No, I have no relatives in the military. If Bush wants to mess up our image on the world stage as he has, yes I am concerned, but not as much as I am with social issues.

In any case, I am a full proponent of the following land division in North America:

http://www.merch-bot.com/product_info.p ... cts_id=149

Seriously now, would anybody be opposed to this? In fact, it might make everybody a lot happier. Sure, some folks would have to move, but at least everybody would have a choice to live under the government which they agree with then.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Calidus
Commander
Commander
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Clan Head, CoN
Contact:

Post by Calidus » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:51 am

So Dameon, it is completely acceptable for a PUBLIC school in California to FORCE it's students to learn 13 muslim proverbs? This is still a conflict of the seperation of church and state that you and the left wing keep crying about. Either the same rules need apply to ALL religions, or you need to leave well enough alone, and mind your own dangnabbit business. Too many people around this country are so worried about what everyone else is doing that they cannot even think that "THEIR" actions are just as offensive to another group. America, land of the pissed off off whiney ass crybabies that don't understand how they got the freedoms they try to bash at every opportunity.

I had about 15 other arguements with you, Dameon, and Donut, and Smashie too, but it just isnt worth it. Just answer one more question:

At the end of the day, in which direction are the refugees heading? Into, or out of the United States of America??
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:44 am

I don't think that the kids should have been forced to learn those Muslim proverbs either, no. In fact, I think we should remove every last reference to any type of God from our government. That means I don't agree with "In God We Trust" on our currency, I don't agree with swearing on a Bible in court, and I certainly don't agree when religious views become secular policy, as Dubya has a tendency to do.

And if you are trying to tell me that liberals don't understand how we got our liberties, you are on something. America was founded as a nation where all can be treated equal, true? THAT is what I stand for, equal rights for everybody. Dubya doesn't believe in that, nor do a lot of the people who put him in office. I thought this was America, land of the free? More like America, land of the free as long as those freedoms don't make the religious right feel icky!
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Undertaker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: The Back Room (behind Sharky's place)
Contact:

Post by Undertaker » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:32 pm

Calidus wrote: At the end of the day, in which direction are the refugees heading? Into, or out of the United States of America??
Well since Dubbya wants to give 8 million illegal immigrants a free ride on the taxpayers backs, I'd say they're moving in.

Wow! and you'd think that could be some sort of a National Security problem. You know, just like you'd think the lift on the assualt weapon ban might be as well. Wisconsin anyone?
"That's a good question. Let me see...In my case, you know, I hate to advocate drugs or liquor, violence, insanity to anyone. But in my case it's worked." Hunter S. Thompson

User avatar
TK
Trooper
Trooper
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:00 am

Post by TK » Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:33 pm

SmashFace wrote:but hey, you're a teacher you're in a union, so i understand that every person around you is as fanatical as you

All teachers are fanatics? Ha ha ha.

User avatar
Donut
Warlord
Warlord
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
Location: Brew Town, WI; USA - BoV
Contact:

Post by Donut » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:56 pm

I don't think it's assault weapons... I think it's concealed weapons (handguns). Isn't it ridiculous?!?! How could you think it's a good idea to allow people to carry a gun around?

Donut
The scars remind us that the past is real.

User avatar
SmashFace
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Appleton Wisconsin U.S.A.
Contact:

Post by SmashFace » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:09 pm

you're not in a union nick? ok my bad. hell yes i voted for bush, but you know what? i am a christian. but where were you complaining when it was a spectacle everytime clinton went to church?speaking of which, anyone seen his library? it sums him up pretty well... looks like a trailor home. i am sick of having hmong holidays forced down my throat at schools. so what, everyone celebrates christmas big deal, but when i'm forced to listen for hours on hmong and jewish and muslim holidays whilst christmas is shunned that peeves me off. i voted for bush because kerry couldn't ever handle the position of commander in chief. he is not mature enough and he hates america's troops too much.
God of WOK

User avatar
Melonus Maximus
Recruit
Recruit
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:00 am
Location: At home, Yorkshire, England

Post by Melonus Maximus » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:57 pm

I thought Britain was suffering cos Blair seems to go along with whatever Bush decided on the war but now I see its a 2 way street. Your education policy where every class is taught as slow as the slowest pupil is one of ours. Our govt want 50% of school leavers to go to University and are lowering standards to achieve this. More and more Mickey Mouse courses are being created so more people can have degrees.

Do you know most schools here don't have sports days because it's too traumatic for a child to lose and they wonder why we've few top athletes.

Sadly, this country will probably vote Blair back in too. God help us!

User avatar
gm_al
Creator
Creator
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by gm_al » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:11 pm

Its easy - make people dumb enough and they will vote for the king of the dumbest. Keep them busy struggling for daily survival (or rather making enough money to meet months end and pay bills) and they will have no time, will and energy to complain or fight the power in place. And on top of that keep them scared so when in doubt they will vote for whom they believe to be the better "commander" - because ultimately they believe a military hardliner must be a good leader and will therefore also be good for their wallets.

Easy schemes, work well in many countries these days.

User avatar
Calidus
Commander
Commander
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Clan Head, CoN
Contact:

Post by Calidus » Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:24 am

gm_al wrote:Its easy - make people dumb enough and they will vote for the king of the dumbest. Keep them busy struggling for daily survival (or rather making enough money to meet months end and pay bills) and they will have no time, will and energy to complain or fight the power in place.
Often times I do not see eye to eye with your views Al, but this time, I think you hit the nail on the head. Do you know how many un-informed voters there are at the polls during an election? I actually heard one man on the radio say the only reason that he would vote for Senator Kerry in this past election was because he was likely to get a gay marrage bill passed and that this individual would no longer have to see the discussion on his television.

Dameon, I take offense to your position of not showing proper respect for the President of the United States. You do not have to like the man, and you sure as hell don't have to respect the man, but YOU could be a man and respect the position and address him as such. A little class goes a long way. I guess that would be too difficult for you though, wouldn't it??
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.

User avatar
Lardmaster
Commander
Commander
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 am
Location: The Big Smoke

Post by Lardmaster » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:13 am

I'm glad I started this. The boards have been boring for ages :) Interesting the direction the thread has taken.

As Winston Churchill once said "The greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"

(Idly wonders what other flamer he can start)
Question everything.

User avatar
Lardmaster
Commander
Commander
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 am
Location: The Big Smoke

Post by Lardmaster » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:15 am

Oh and Calidus, I disagree with you on the President. Why should Nick have to show respect for someone he patently has no respect for?
Question everything.

User avatar
Undertaker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: The Back Room (behind Sharky's place)
Contact:

Post by Undertaker » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:15 pm

SmashFace wrote: i voted for bush because kerry couldn't ever handle the position of commander in chief. he is not mature enough and he hates america's troops too much.
Considering that neither Bush, nor the majority at the top of his administration, have any military experience whatsoever. This includes Cheney,rumsfeld,ashcroft,rove,rice,delay,wolfowitz, bremer just to name a few, it surprises me that some find this "group of folks" most capable to lead.
"That's a good question. Let me see...In my case, you know, I hate to advocate drugs or liquor, violence, insanity to anyone. But in my case it's worked." Hunter S. Thompson

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:27 pm

Calidus wrote:
Dameon, I take offense to your position of not showing proper respect for the President of the United States. You do not have to like the man, and you sure as hell don't have to respect the man, but YOU could be a man and respect the position and address him as such. A little class goes a long way. I guess that would be too difficult for you though, wouldn't it??
Yes, that would be. I do not respect Dubya at all. It is impossible for me to do that when he uses his office to quash the civil liberties of citizens of this country, as well as making us look bad to the rest of the world. I actually approve of the WTO laying sanctions on the US today, maybe a hit to his pocketbook will make Dubya realize that the US is actually part of a global community and can't just do whatever the hell it wants.

Also, you cannot expect me to respect the office of the preident when he has no respect for the wishes of the minority. Yes, he got 3 million more votes than Kerry, but that still means 55 million people voted against him. Dubya respects their wishes not at all; he's just going to continue to govern like we don't exist. He'll follow the religious right and ignore the rest of us just like he did in term 1. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot respect the office when he is using it the way he is. All I want is for him to respect the minority and temper some of his maverick conservatism with compassion....but I guess that would be too difficult for him though, wouldn't it??
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
Underdog
Commander
Commander
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Indiana, USA---Mercenary(for now)
Contact:

Post by Underdog » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:00 pm

Lardmaster wrote:Oh and Calidus, I disagree with you on the President. Why should Nick have to show respect for someone he patently has no respect for?
LM, Calidus asked Dameon to respect the POSITION not the man.
There's no need to fear...........
Underdog is here

User avatar
Lardmaster
Commander
Commander
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 am
Location: The Big Smoke

Post by Lardmaster » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:38 pm

From my point of view thats hard to differentiate. The office IS the man surely?
Question everything.

User avatar
Dameon
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:00 am
Location: Valn Ohtar Chapterhouse

Post by Dameon » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:29 am

It is and it isn't. I understand where Larry is coming from here, but I simply cannot even respect the office of President when it is used to make our country worse and suppress civil liberties. I only respect the office of President when there is a non-bigot in it, sorry to say. I respected it under Clinton and Reagen; but never under Dubya.
"A Knight is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, his might upholds the weak, his word speaks only truth, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

User avatar
phred
Recruit
Recruit
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:00 am

Post by phred » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:00 am

"A President is sworn to valor, his heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless against the oppressors, his might upholds the weak, his wrath outdoes the wicked."

Post Reply