Wisconsin

Calidus · Post by **Calidus** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:20 am

OK, just a few things. Trewq and Seth....shut the hell up. This CRAP should have been done through email. Stop boring the hell out of us. Trewq, I realize the frustration with waiting on this type of situation. But the GM does not bow down to the players. As you now know, you GM because you feel that you can bring something to the WOK community. So, if you dont like the way a certain GM runs games, dont sign up for one. If you don't sign up for an unproven GM's games, you wont get burned.

Ecrivian, Get this d a m n game underway. Period. It's time to step up and prove yourself. You keep telling me you want to prove the skeptics wrong, well, you currently are not on the right path for that. Before you go to bed, take 30 minutes and run the turns, update the page, and send everyone a turn. The world is watching.

I was going to tell Raw and the rest that tennessee founded trailer parks, but I actually think that Alabama holds the patent on them......

-Calidus

Raw · Post by **Raw** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:23 am

Calidus...I believe you totally.....I am just saying that there are a ton here!

But, once again...with trailers come hot chicks and cold beer!

-Raw

Ecrivian · Post by **Ecrivian** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:53 am

Calidus wrote: Before you go to bed, take 30 minutes and run the turns, update the page, and send everyone a turn. The world is watching.

-Calidus

Done. Page is updated for all to marvel at.......

Post by **gm_al** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:17 am

I marvel at the sight of 'V3.25' on the page, where we all use V3.30 these days....

And how realistic is a 2-day deadline anyway ? Just asking, didnt mean to spoil the fun.

Post by **trewqh** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:51 pm

Calidus wrote:OK, just a few things. Trewq and Seth....shut the hell up. This CRAP should have been done through email.

[child talk] He started it! [/child talk]

Calidus wrote:Stop boring the hell out of us.

You know what I think Calidus? I think that you wouldn't care to post about it and give us your view on all this if this bored you. This matter has drawn your attention.
Boredom is an unpleasent feeling. People try to avoid unpleasent things unless...

Calidus wrote: [...]the GM does not bow down to the players.

I told it earlier: It doesn't have to mean bowing down but the games should be run FOR players. In my NTSH opinion the players are more imoportant in a game than the GM. The GM is just a referee, a judge, and YES, (in a way) a servant. If a GM thinks he can run games for himself (and send in 10 sets of orders to himself) then he probably has a difficulty in understanding the word 'fun'.

Calidus wrote: As you now know, you GM because you feel that you can bring something to the WOK community. So, if you dont like the way a certain GM runs games, dont sign up for one. If you don't sign up for an unproven GM's games, you wont get burned.

You're right! But I had no personal experiences with GM Seth so far and I think it would be unfair not to give him a chance. Learned by over a month of waiting I decided to quit the group. That's all that there is to it.

trewqh

Post by **korexus** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:15 pm

OK Seth, I hope you read this soon because this is important.

I emailed you shortly after turn 2 ran to express concerns about the population in your game. (For everyone else, it appeared they were not getting a "growth" phase) You never replied to that email which is why I'm posting this in public.

I just opened my new turn report to find that my total pop at the start of the turn was 476 people higher than it was at the end of last turn. Now while I am very grateful for the extra man power and coinage. I didn't know these refugees would be turning up so I didn't make any conversions with them and, more importantly, 476 extra mouths works out as quite a bit more corn than I was expecting.

I'm tempted to say we should carry on regardless. Too many people is a better problem than too few and I don't really want to confuse this issue further with yet more re-runs. But I would like to know what's going on. (And if the other players are having similar problems...)

Please respond Seth, soon.

korexus.

*edit* Having compared numbers a bit further, what appears to have happened is that the turn 0 population has been restored in my provinces. (I can only be certain of this in my home province but it matches there so it seems like a good explanation) If this has been happening to neutrals throughout the game it would explain the woeful POP values (One neutral I took this turn, turn 4 had only 42 POP in it.) Unfortunately however, this cannot be the whole explanation as, having spoken to Funtastick, this didn't happen to everyone so there's obviously something else. In the light of this though I think a re run of this turn is probably essential.

Appologies to everyone for the rant and over use of bracketts...

k.

Bjorn · Post by **Bjorn** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:01 am

I concur with Korexus. When I look at my position at the end of turn 3 and the starting position for turn 4, the POP is all different. Indeed it does look like all provinces have been restored to their starting POP. I could see no other differences. My provinces with lots of POP were cut down, but all my empty provinces now have lots of people.

I guess we just press on. What else is there to do?

Post by **Dameon** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:11 am

This is exactly what happened to GM Mike- Al is this a bug??? The pop values in his provinces were reset at the beginning of every turn. I though it was a problem unique to his computer or something, but it appears that the problem is bigger than that. FYI, this is going to happen EVERY turn, and considering the havoc it would play with feeding and transformations, you really can't run a game like this.

Post by **korexus** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:36 am

It's slightly different though. I don't know what happened to Mike and as I haven't seen the pop file for Wisconsin it's hard to completely sure what happened here. But it was only neutrals which were behaving strangely before. This is the first turn in which pop levels have changed in my provinces. Surely if it were a bug something would have happened on turns 1, 2 and 3 aswell?

Ecrivian · Post by **Ecrivian** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:57 am

I'll send a copy of the pop file to the players shortly, i'm away from my home right now and will have that out hopefully by midnight tonight so they may compare, then they may email me later regarding such.

GM Seth

Post by **gm_al** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:42 am

I tried to reproduce the 'bug' when Mike emailed me a few weeks ago - I simply couldnt.

I ran some twenty Turns with different parameters but nothing went wrong. I saw his .dat files and was a bit dazzled, but still failed to accept it as a bug.

Dont get me wrong, I am not accusing anyone of anything, but it could well be that a GM is doing something wrong in the process of running the Turn.

Id like to ask all GMs that run WOK5 games to check their POP values and help me track this one down if possible. Send me all the files you have in this regard with some explanations on what you observed and found out.

Post by **korexus** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:36 am

No data files yet Seth, I appreciate that you are busy. But can we at least assume that the next turn won't be run until this is sorted out? - There seems little point in carrying on if we're going to have to backtrack anyway...

korexus.

Post by **trewqh** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:55 am

TAG

How do you play the epsilon game that TK mentioned?

Ecrivian · Post by **Ecrivian** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:48 pm

korexus wrote:No data files yet Seth, I appreciate that you are busy. But can we at least assume that the next turn won't be run until this is sorted out? - There seems little point in carrying on if we're going to have to backtrack anyway...

korexus.

Yep, that's explained in the email going out today. Check it out!

GM Seth